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Old December 4th, 2012, 08:20 AM   #31

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Originally Posted by pikeshot1600 View Post
Now, Sarge, we all know Al Gore invented the Internet.
I don't get this joke, I'm afraid!
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Old December 4th, 2012, 08:22 AM   #32

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Inventing the Internet. Did Al Gore Invent the Internet?
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Old December 4th, 2012, 09:52 AM   #33
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The US didn't 'invent the internet'.

Tim Berners-Lee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I think you're confusing the world wide web (and the hyper text transfer protocol) with the internet (TCP/IP protocol). The internet was developed by the US Department of Defense; though you should be happy to hear that a British computer scientist was still an essential player:

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Davies]Donald Davies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

And of course, none of this would have been possible without the contributions of Alan Turing, who was probably the greatest mind of the 20th century...easily beating out Einstein.

But, with all that said, my point wasn't so much about early research in Computer science, to which the British contributed greatly (well, some British computer scientists did, considering the British government essentially killed Turing, they have probably done more to undermine technological development in the 20th century than any other government on earth).The point was more one about the development of the global infrastructure and the commercialization of networking, which, at least initially, was largely an American endeavour...and still generally is. The internet remains dominated by American companies.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 05:37 PM   #34

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Originally Posted by constantine View Post
I think you're confusing the world wide web (and the hyper text transfer protocol) with the internet (TCP/IP protocol). The internet was developed by the US Department of Defense; though you should be happy to hear that a British computer scientist was still an essential player:

Donald Davies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET"]ARPANET.[/ame]
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Old December 4th, 2012, 05:38 PM   #35

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His best invention was still Al Gore though
Nice.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 05:56 PM   #36

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..........
Of course, fate is a funny bird. If the Soviet Union didn't exist, this explosive growth of the US across the globe more than likely would not have occurred. What might have happened is left to the imagination as decolonization took place and there was no competing ideological powers to replace the empires as they went home. As strange as this will sound, but i think the US involvement with the world would have shrunk back to it's own hemispheric region rather than remain so globally involved. Does this sound about right?
I doubt the US would have shrunk back to its own hemisphere. Even if the Soviet Union had posed no threat after WWII, the rapid rise of US industry during the war needed an outlet and the Cold War miiltary economy may have instead become a consumer goods export driven economy. This would entail maintaining ties with any nation the US wanted to do business with. And of course this economy would still need oil and all the political ramifactions that go with it.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 07:17 PM   #37

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I doubt the US would have shrunk back to its own hemisphere. Even if the Soviet Union had posed no threat after WWII, the rapid rise of US industry during the war needed an outlet and the Cold War miiltary economy may have instead become a consumer goods export driven economy. This would entail maintaining ties with any nation the US wanted to do business with. And of course this economy would still need oil and all the political ramifactions that go with it.
Quite possible, minus the Soviet Union, it may have come in time, maybe? However, i still think it would have shrunk and this is why... even with the Soviets and communists establishing their rule in in Eastern Europe and parts of Asia, most Americans and half of the US government weren't quite interested in establishing a long term US presence anywhere outside of it's region, except Southern Germany or Japan for a decade or two, from which... that i can decipher from the past.

In fact, during the time the Soviets were consolidating their grip in Eastern Europe and the Chinese communists were on the verge of winning their civil war, the American military went from 16 million strong down to around 2 million or less within a five year period by end of the decade and set to shrink even more before of Korean war having caught Washington and it's allies flatfooted, military readiness that is. Money, billions of dollars worth, that was flowing to the US military during the 1940 - 1945 period, was drying up quickly to a trickle from 1946 to 1950. The US just doesn't seem to have been setting itself up for consolidating it's grip in the world, rather... it's seems to be the opposite appeared to be occurring.

This suggests to me that, even as the events i described above were unfolding, most people in the world including the US, were pinning their hopes in the UN. And that if the Korean war had never have blown up and instead have reunified peacefully, then the US footprint in the world, especially it's military, would be vastly different from what it now is; Being limited to Japan & Germany for a few decades and a few other countries perhaps, rather than what we now have: hundreds of bases and several hundred thousand troops in over a hundred+ countries encircling the globe.

Last edited by Panthera tigris altaica; December 4th, 2012 at 07:27 PM.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 10:52 PM   #38

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Originally Posted by Panthera tigris altaica View Post
Quite possible, minus the Soviet Union, it may have come in time, maybe? However, i still think it would have shrunk and this is why... even with the Soviets and communists establishing their rule in in Eastern Europe and parts of Asia, most Americans and half of the US government weren't quite interested in establishing a long term US presence anywhere outside of it's region, except Southern Germany or Japan for a decade or two, from which... that i can decipher from the past.

In fact, during the time the Soviets were consolidating their grip in Eastern Europe and the Chinese communists were on the verge of winning their civil war, the American military went from 16 million strong down to around 2 million or less within a five year period by end of the decade and set to shrink even more before of Korean war having caught Washington and it's allies flatfooted, military readiness that is. Money, billions of dollars worth, that was flowing to the US military during the 1940 - 1945 period, was drying up quickly to a trickle from 1946 to 1950. The US just doesn't seem to have been setting itself up for consolidating it's grip in the world, rather... it's seems to be the opposite appeared to be occurring.

This suggests to me that, even as the events i described above were unfolding, most people in the world including the US, were pinning their hopes in the UN. And that if the Korean war had never have blown up and instead have reunified peacefully, then the US footprint in the world, especially it's military, would be vastly different from what it now is; Being limited to Japan & Germany for a few decades and a few other countries perhaps, rather than what we now have: hundreds of bases and several hundred thousand troops in over a hundred+ countries encircling the globe.
Exactly. There has always been a strong isolationist trend in the United States. Unfortunately that blew up in our faces in WWII when we suddenly found the world in a chaotic mess and ourselves totally unprepared for it. And then only a few years later it was looking like a repeat performance with Soviet and Chinese aggression.

The idea that the military industry and the oil industry are so powerful in the United States that they can lead the rest of the country around by the nose is just plain Michael Moore hysteria. They are just two of many industries and special interest groups battling it out for influence in this country.

Last edited by Rongo; December 4th, 2012 at 11:25 PM. Reason: hysteria
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Old December 4th, 2012, 11:45 PM   #39

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Originally Posted by Sargon of Akkad View Post
The US didn't 'invent the internet'.

Tim Berners-Lee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Americans invented the internet.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 12:06 AM   #40
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If US is to "fall" in the foreseeable future the most likely is by a global catastrophe.
But its dominant position could be replaced. Perhaps with a system were a number of the biggest states or cooperations of states makes a sort of "multiple leadership", were US continues to be "heavier" than any of the other, but less than them when combined.
Its culture and "way" could also be challenged if/when other parts of humanity has "extracted" what they find most attractive(probably a significant part has already dona that).
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