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Old December 4th, 2012, 09:02 AM   #1

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Strange Things


There are many strange discoveries that appear to have been discovered recently. Gobekli Tepe, the Balkan Pyramids, the Baltic Sea anomalies, the Donnano Spain excavations, Yonaguni, The Bimini Road, sunken city remains off India, Cuba and Spain. Not to mention an uncountable number of numerous strange objects with unusual markings. Most of which are immediately classified as "fakes or hoaxes."
Are these discoveries real? If so, do they suggest that something is entirely wrong with our understanding of humanity's past? That we may be purposely discarding discoveries that are becoming far too numerous to ignore. Having just one or two of these "imagination or fantasy based sites" is one thing, but to have so many being discovered at so many locations around the world must cause one to wonder what is actually going on here? What is the truth?
Archeology seems to want to immediately classify all of this as lunacy and "bunk." But there are just too many to be so easily and abruptly discarded.
I have looked at the images provided for the Baltic Sea anomalies and they, so far, appear interesting enough to pursue further investigation. Ostensibly they appear to be structures and do not look "natural." Further investigations are under way. If these objects turn out to be real, how are we going to explain them?
The Balkan Pyramid also looks far to regular for nature to have spontaneously produced. Especially a four sided symmetrical pyramid shape such as this. Investigations are currently ongoing. IF this pyramid turns out to be truly man made, it is going to upset a lot of archeological theory.
The Bimini Road does have aspects that suggest it could have been "built" by the hands of man. It too is still being investigated.
Yonaguni is far to symmetrical to have been created by natural stone seperation and ocean weathering. Especially since no detritus has been found at the bottom of the various levels. Plus, certain object positioning exists at Yonaguni that nature is not known to create. Yonaguni is also currently being further investigated.
The submerged cities off Spain, Cuba and eastern India are currently being investigated. So far without much feedback from these explorations offered up for perusal. However, all three sites are definitely there, are symmetrical and all three are underwater. What will be most interesting is if these three sites were subsumed at the same time.
Recently, remnants of Cleopatra's palace have been located off the coast of Alexandria, in Egypt. It is already known that certain complex architectural locations have been subsumed by the ocean. Fortunately, archeology cannot imply this discovery od Cleopatra's palace as lunacy as it has been rumored about for centuries that this particular palace once existed there.
Therein lies the rub. Archeology has no problem accepting the existence of something that has been historically suggested. It did once assume Troy did not exist. But has since learned that some aspects concerning ancient mythology do turn out to be true
Then you come to the amazing discoveries being uncovered at Gobekli Tepe, Turkey. Which no one in archeology can now deny its' existence. Despite the fact that no one knew it was even there. That is the big problem. How many other Gobekli Tepes are out there? Places that no one knows about, no record of exists and still remain at the bottom of the ocean, buried in some jungle or covered over purposely by dirt?
Gobekli Tepe alone is overturning many of the previously held dogmas of archeology. How much more lies hidden on our planet that awaits revolutionary discovery?
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Old December 4th, 2012, 09:13 AM   #2

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I'm sure a great deal remains to be found. As you well know, there are cities whose location we do not know for sure today but they are mentioned in various texts.

I saw a documentary on the work they are doing with satellites. They found a "lost" city that was important in ancient times as part of a trade route but was lost in the desserts of Saudi Arabia. They found the site as well as the roads that lead to the lost city.


Also, surveillace from the air has discovered the true extent of an ancient city in Thailand. It was much bigger than previously thought.


I saw another documentary (I'm a big tv watcher ) about possible civilizations lost in the jungles of South America; they (don't remember who now) discovered remains of canals, etc. Those jungles hide so much and apparently quickly too.

The oceans, as you have mentioned probably hold a lot of secrets as well.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 09:21 AM   #3

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Gobekeli Tepe isn't nearly as groundbreaking or mysterious as you seem to think it is. It's significance is in its age, but it's not a sign of advanced unknown ancient civilization on a large scale, nor is it unprecedented at all. It seems as if you've never heard of Catal Huyuk, the first known urban settlement which is likewise in Anatolia and exhibits a similar culture as well as having a similar timeframe. If the people who made the shrine at Gobekeli Tepe weren't of the same culture as those who dwelled in Catal Huyuk, then they were probably predecessors. Furthermore, Gobekeli Tepe isn't a city either. It's a religious site of rather primitive construction, it's significance not being how elaborate it is but simply that it is the first of its kind. The only other significant fact that gets archaeologists excited is that it is believed to have been created by hunter-gatherers, which would put a big dent in what you are saying.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 09:36 AM   #4

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Furthermore, in regards to the underwater "discoveries" like the Bimini Road, Baltic Sea Stone, and Yonaguni Monument, they're all explained as natural formations (most likely from glacial movements) for a reason, because that's a far more plausible explanation than hitherto unknown civilizations that have absolutely no evidence of existence above the sea and none within it besides a few plain stones. Here is a rock formation on the surface in Ireland, the Giant's Causeway:
Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

That looks far more impressive and unnatural than what lies under the sea, and yet I have not once heard of any of these fake experts claiming that they are man-made. I have personally seen rocks that look for convincingly man-made behind my house than the one in the Baltic Sea. One for example looks exactly like a section of guardrail. But alas, it's just glacial rock. All these claims are just based on wild fantasies and intellectual dishonesty, things shown by every fringe theorist. They don't believe in Atlantis or Bosnian pyramids because evidence suggests they exist, but because they want them to be real. However science does not work that way. This has caused most of these fringe people, Zarin being an example here, to believe in conspiracy theories suggesting that archaeologists as a whole (except for the ones who lack a degree and agree with them) are either extremely incompetent or lying to cover something up. In reality it's many of these proponents of fringe theories that are actually engaged in making elaborate hoaxes, a prime example being the Bosnian pyramids. Anyone who's read anything in detail about the claims and their creator, Semir Osmanagic, and is even remotely unbiased knows they're obviously fake and hoaxes, as were the infamous crystal skulls and many other such things.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 09:45 AM   #5

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if we can develope so much in last 200-300 years i dont think it will be hard to beleive it happened many times before in the past .
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Old December 4th, 2012, 09:54 AM   #6

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bharata View Post
if we can develope so much in last 200-300 years i dont think it will be hard to beleive it happened many times before in the past .
We've developed from the past not just in technology but also in rationality. The past was when all these outlandish theories were in vogue and considered to be even somewhat credible. The interconnectedness of modern society however has made it so that the scientific community in all fields can easily communicate with colleagues, and therefore the anonymity and isolation that allowed fringe theorists in the past to thrive is all but gone and now only the gullibility and hype-obsession of popular media has allowed them to persist. The discoveries Clemmie mentioned are all pretty much true (though I think he meant to say Cambodia instead of Thailand as I can't think of any recent discoveries similar to what he suggests there) but these do not run contrary to what was previously known to be plausible. Zarin basically created this thread to push his belief in advanced ancient civilizations like Atlantis rather than to discuss any credible discoveries like Amazonian civilization, the full extent of Angkor, or medieval Middle-Eastern trade outposts.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 10:08 AM   #7

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hresvelgr View Post
Gobekeli Tepe isn't nearly as groundbreaking or mysterious as you seem to think it is. It's significance is in its age, but it's not a sign of advanced unknown ancient civilization on a large scale, nor is it unprecedented at all. It seems as if you've never heard of Catal Huyuk, the first known urban settlement which is likewise in Anatolia and exhibits a similar culture as well as having a similar timeframe. If the people who made the shrine at Gobekeli Tepe weren't of the same culture as those who dwelled in Catal Huyuk, then they were probably predecessors. Furthermore, Gobekeli Tepe isn't a city either. It's a religious site of rather primitive construction, it's significance not being how elaborate it is but simply that it is the first of its kind. The only other significant fact that gets archaeologists excited is that it is believed to have been created by hunter-gatherers, which would put a big dent in what you are saying.
I am well aware of Catal Huyuk and the other sites in Anatolia that have been discovered that seemingly relate to Gobekli Tepe. And you are very right as to the great differences in age between Gobekli Tepe and Catal Huyuk. No doubt that Gobekli Tepe precedes Catal Huyuk. However, what is not known is what predates Gobekli Tepe?
What is "shocking" is that archeology assumed that civilization began in Egypt and Sumer 6,000 years BCE and now we know that simply is not true. Moreover, there is a great gap between 9500 BCE and 6,000 BCE. The same amount of time existing between the Middle Kingdom of Egypt and today.
Your definition of "primitive" is dubious. A primitive civilization does not move several ton rocks and then cut and and refine them into a sophisticated architectural structure such as is seen at Gobekli Tepe. Nor do they do it several times in numerous structures. Gobekli Tepe is a combination of many purposes. Not some "primitive" wattle and daub village.
Only about 10% of Gobekli Tepe has been uncovered, so its' designation as anything still remains to be seen. However, a 25 hectare site can hardly be referred to as only a "religious center." Everyone there had to sleep, eat and find water. And this has to be done every single day.
Discoveries are already in place that indicates Gobekli Tepe was also a trading center. Combine religion and trade with any urban complex and you get a "city" by any definition. And the term "city" basically means a permanent in situ population. Which nothing known about Gobekli Tepe yet occludes. Actually implies. Gobekli Tepe may not have been "city" along the lines of Rome or Babylon but it was still a city. More likely one built along the lines of Jerusalem or Armana.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 10:24 AM   #8

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hresvelgr View Post
Furthermore, in regards to the underwater "discoveries" like the Bimini Road, Baltic Sea Stone, and Yonaguni Monument, they're all explained as natural formations (most likely from glacial movements) for a reason, because that's a far more plausible explanation than hitherto unknown civilizations that have absolutely no evidence of existence above the sea and none within it besides a few plain stones. Here is a rock formation on the surface in Ireland, the Giant's Causeway:
Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

That looks far more impressive and unnatural than what lies under the sea, and yet I have not once heard of any of these fake experts claiming that they are man-made. I have personally seen rocks that look for convincingly man-made behind my house than the one in the Baltic Sea. One for example looks exactly like a section of guardrail. But alas, it's just glacial rock. All these claims are just based on wild fantasies and intellectual dishonesty, things shown by every fringe theorist. They don't believe in Atlantis or Bosnian pyramids because evidence suggests they exist, but because they want them to be real. However science does not work that way. This has caused most of these fringe people, Zarin being an example here, to believe in conspiracy theories suggesting that archaeologists as a whole (except for the ones who lack a degree and agree with them) are either extremely incompetent or lying to cover something up. In reality it's many of these proponents of fringe theories that are actually engaged in making elaborate hoaxes, a prime example being the Bosnian pyramids. Anyone who's read anything in detail about the claims and their creator, Semir Osmanagic, and is even remotely unbiased knows they're obviously fake and hoaxes, as were the infamous crystal skulls and many other such things.
Science has been well known to contain numerous erroneous viewpoints. It often takes "fringe" thinkers such as Albert Einstein and numerous others to prove how very wrong science often is. Scientific viewpoints are often being overturned or rethought once knew information is acquired and that is the point...new information.
Anyone who has ever read any of my posts knows that I enter any conceptualization with an open mind. Which is a necessity in the investigation of any phenomena. You obviously do not understand this as you usually babble.
I have noticed that the only thing you ever seem to offer is ad hominems and general put downs.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 11:42 AM   #9

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Enjoy: 6 Insane Discoveries That Science Can't Explain | Cracked.com
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Old December 4th, 2012, 11:57 AM   #10

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A thing has been proved without doubt.

When, during the last glacial age, the level of the oceans was lower than now there were settlement along those ancient coasts and these settlements today are under the water.

One of the most amazing site [which I like to remember] is in front of Israeli coasts. It's Atlit Yam [
Atlit_Yam Atlit_Yam
]. And sure it's a great site. Many millenniums ego there was megalithic culture in Middle East with clear astronomical interest [observation of the sky using standing stones as "aims" and point of reference, like they would have done in Europe in the following ages].
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