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Old December 12th, 2012, 07:59 AM   #21

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Just look at the two statements you posted. Talk about total contradiction. One is a link title and the other a personal comment.
I usually do not access the Huffington Post because the script they use manages to screw up my computer. However, with extended and lengthy patience, I was finally able to access the link you posted. It took 15 minutes. Talk about a totally misleading headline. A perfect example of "spin." The substance of the article was about a Black Sea Flood and nothing about Noah's Ark. The source I accessed this AM had a completely different version and a similar headline for this news item. Just goes to prove that even news sources are not trustworthy. Even you must have had your doubts about posting the above two separate sentences in the same post?
The first sentence is the title of the article (not my wording). The link contradicts itself (as you say, it doesn't deliver the headline, and explicitly says that Ballard is not looking for Noah's Ark).

The second sentence is my comment. Which nonetheless agrees with the content of the article.

Sorry if that confused you. My fault.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 10:06 AM   #22

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There is a third possibility being overlooked here. That a worldwide catastrophe actually took place over the entire water surface of the planet's oceans. That it was not piecemeal as has been suggested, but an unusual singular event whose causality remains as of yet unknown. Indications are beginning to accrue that such a worldwide event may have actually occurred. Something akin to the same singular causality that appears to have extinguished all the large dinosauria. The main question is could the sinking of Atlantis into the ocean in a single day and night be this causality? The dating of Atlantis sinking into the ocean around 12,000 years ago by Plato is beginning to look far more credible in light of the numerous forms of other information coming out about this particular period.
Because we have no evidence of a worldwide cataclysmic flood. If there was a worldwide cataclysmic flood, there would be a consistent sediment layer that could be found on all continents along the coastal regions. To date, no such sediment layer has ever been found, and there have been many people who have wanted to prove that such a layer exists and have actively sought to find it. What they have found instead is evidence of many localized floods.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 07:57 PM   #23

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Because we have no evidence of a worldwide cataclysmic flood. If there was a worldwide cataclysmic flood, there would be a consistent sediment layer that could be found on all continents along the coastal regions. To date, no such sediment layer has ever been found, and there have been many people who have wanted to prove that such a layer exists and have actively sought to find it. What they have found instead is evidence of many localized floods.
Rasta, you are smarter than this. The levels of the oceans around the world were 300-500 feet lower 12,000 years ago than they are now. Such evidence is now deep under water all over the world. Plus all the coastal communities 12,000 years ago were completely destroyed and their remains are now deep under tons of water. And water is one of the swiftest causalities of erosion.
Airborne dust, river flooding sedimentation, rain and snowfall erosion,
tectonic movement and even tilling could have done tremendous damage to any evidence of a 1-2 mile high tsunami that reached all over the world 12,000 years ago. Moreover, the wave would have considerably lessened in height the further it moved over the total water surface of this planet. So evidence of a 50-200 foot wave (an incredible tsunami in any age) at its' furthest extent now lies below ocean levels. The most likely presence of evidence for a 1-2 mile high tsunami might lie at some great distance inland from any coastal surfaces in existence today. It is possible to postulate how the world's land masses appeared 12,000 years ago and estimate how this wave would have moved and how it might have been impeded as well. Also how far inland it could have reached.
Plato stated that the mudflats on the western side of the Pillars of Hercules were once impassable. What do you think would create impassable mudflats at the base of a narrow passage such as existed at the Straits of Gibraltar? A huge tsunami carrying or moving tremendous amounts of soil detritus that couldn't get through this narrow passage, Such detritus would have been deposited there due to there being no where else to go. How much soil and earth would have been dragged across the Atlantic in both directions by the sinking of Atlantis into the ocean? Not just one wave but a back crashing of water to fill the void created as Atlantis sank and then a new movement of this secondary wave in every direction. Just like the ripples a stone creates upon falling into water.
Moreover, if we take the existence of Noah's Ark as based on some actual water born event carrying it somewhere up on Mt. Arrat, Turkey; then evidence of this tsunami might well be found around this particular mountain.

Last edited by Zarin; December 12th, 2012 at 08:03 PM.
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Old December 13th, 2012, 02:41 AM   #24

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Rasta, you are smarter than this. The levels of the oceans around the world were 300-500 feet lower 12,000 years ago than they are now. Such evidence is now deep under water all over the world. Plus all the coastal communities 12,000 years ago were completely destroyed and their remains are now deep under tons of water. And water is one of the swiftest causalities of erosion.
Airborne dust, river flooding sedimentation, rain and snowfall erosion,
tectonic movement and even tilling could have done tremendous damage to any evidence of a 1-2 mile high tsunami that reached all over the world 12,000 years ago. Moreover, the wave would have considerably lessened in height the further it moved over the total water surface of this planet. So evidence of a 50-200 foot wave (an incredible tsunami in any age) at its' furthest extent now lies below ocean levels. The most likely presence of evidence for a 1-2 mile high tsunami might lie at some great distance inland from any coastal surfaces in existence today. It is possible to postulate how the world's land masses appeared 12,000 years ago and estimate how this wave would have moved and how it might have been impeded as well. Also how far inland it could have reached.
Plato stated that the mudflats on the western side of the Pillars of Hercules were once impassable. What do you think would create impassable mudflats at the base of a narrow passage such as existed at the Straits of Gibraltar? A huge tsunami carrying or moving tremendous amounts of soil detritus that couldn't get through this narrow passage, Such detritus would have been deposited there due to there being no where else to go. How much soil and earth would have been dragged across the Atlantic in both directions by the sinking of Atlantis into the ocean? Not just one wave but a back crashing of water to fill the void created as Atlantis sank and then a new movement of this secondary wave in every direction. Just like the ripples a stone creates upon falling into water.
Moreover, if we take the existence of Noah's Ark as based on some actual water born event carrying it somewhere up on Mt. Arrat, Turkey; then evidence of this tsunami might well be found around this particular mountain.
Zarin I always enjoy your posts But here you seem to be saying that the fact that we've found no evidence for something, supports its possible truth?
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Old December 13th, 2012, 04:23 AM   #25

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Rasta, you are smarter than this. The levels of the oceans around the world were 300-500 feet lower 12,000 years ago than they are now. Such evidence is now deep under water all over the world. Plus all the coastal communities 12,000 years ago were completely destroyed and their remains are now deep under tons of water. And water is one of the swiftest causalities of erosion.
Airborne dust, river flooding sedimentation, rain and snowfall erosion,
tectonic movement and even tilling could have done tremendous damage to any evidence of a 1-2 mile high tsunami that reached all over the world 12,000 years ago. Moreover, the wave would have considerably lessened in height the further it moved over the total water surface of this planet. So evidence of a 50-200 foot wave (an incredible tsunami in any age) at its' furthest extent now lies below ocean levels. The most likely presence of evidence for a 1-2 mile high tsunami might lie at some great distance inland from any coastal surfaces in existence today. It is possible to postulate how the world's land masses appeared 12,000 years ago and estimate how this wave would have moved and how it might have been impeded as well. Also how far inland it could have reached.
Plato stated that the mudflats on the western side of the Pillars of Hercules were once impassable. What do you think would create impassable mudflats at the base of a narrow passage such as existed at the Straits of Gibraltar? A huge tsunami carrying or moving tremendous amounts of soil detritus that couldn't get through this narrow passage, Such detritus would have been deposited there due to there being no where else to go. How much soil and earth would have been dragged across the Atlantic in both directions by the sinking of Atlantis into the ocean? Not just one wave but a back crashing of water to fill the void created as Atlantis sank and then a new movement of this secondary wave in every direction. Just like the ripples a stone creates upon falling into water.
Moreover, if we take the existence of Noah's Ark as based on some actual water born event carrying it somewhere up on Mt. Arrat, Turkey; then evidence of this tsunami might well be found around this particular mountain.
Exactly, there would be evidence on land. We are not talking about some minor event that the ancient coastlines could swallow. We are talking about a global catastrophe that is responsible for myths from the middle east to continental north america.
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Old December 13th, 2012, 04:28 AM   #26

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Any number of fallacies here:
Appeal to Possibility
Argument from Ignorance
Cherry Picking
Conspiracy Theory
Far-Fetched Hypothesis
God Wildcard Fallacy*

And that's only as far as "G" in the list.
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Old December 13th, 2012, 08:45 AM   #27

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Zarin I always enjoy your posts But here you seem to be saying that the fact that we've found no evidence for something, supports its possible truth?
"Evidence" is something not always obvious or where you would normally expect to find it. What I am saying is that the evidence for this worldwide catastrophe will not be found around the world's current coastlines. Much of this evidence (especially once the wave fell below 300 feet in height)would now lie under the sea. Especially the further you get from where Plato stated Atlantis was. This is because the ocean levels around the world were 300-500 feet lower. However, a 1-2 mile high tsunami should have left some spectacular evidence. But where to go look for it? The final deposit of such water born detritus could have been carried far inland by such a high wave of water. And would anyone really connect such evidence, so far inland, to a colossal tsunami from the Atlantic Ocean? Most likely such evidence would be associated with regional flooding and that is assuming such evidence was readily apparent. Any ocean born flooding carries some specific evidence with it. And most ocean born evidence found at higher levels deep inland is normally connected to tectonic causalities. A connection that in some cases could be in great error if universally applied solely to tectonic origin.
You can get some clues for height and distance traveled by such a tsunami, if you assume the legend of Noah's Ark is based on a real event. How far do you think a wave capable of placing a boat up on Mt. Ararat would travel into the interior of Europe, Asia, Africa or North and South America?
Indications exist that some collosal sea borne event created the link between the Black Sea and the Mediterranean. Current dating suggests this event took place 7500 years ago. However, this "dating" might be off by 5-6,000 years, Mainly because any Atlantis "connection" could be overlooked for political or conservative reasons. However, we do know something breached the barrier between these two bodies of water. Something that very well could have occurred more than once, at an earlier date and at a far worse level. Atlantis may not have been the only land mass that disappeared into the sea, either.
There is a submerged city off the eastern coast of India that appears to have been destroyed around the same time Atlantis sank into the sea. Moreover, several other submerged sites have recently been discovered that only show street or construction grids, not structures. This type of evidence would indicate a complete sweeping away of those structures by the force of water. A tsunami.
If there were any man made structures constructed of wood or stone at Yonaguni, these too would have been completely swept away. Yonaguni does have indications of at least having been partially worked or modified by the hands of man. The debate still goes on about what actually occurred there.
Now, most assume that these various events are not connected. But that may very well be a false assumption. More and more evidence is accumulating that some very unusual water born event occurred around 12,000-13,000 years ago. What remains to be determined is what was the causality. No one with any knowledge of astrophysics would doubt the likelihood that an asteroid strike into the Atlantic or Pacific would cause most of these effects. However an asteroid strike would also leave other evidence as well. And this has not been forthcoming. Tectonic activity is not capable of creating such a collosal tsunami, but landslides are another matter. Having a large land mass even conservatively estimated as what Plato gave to the size of Atlantis sink suddenly into the ocean would make any landslide pale in comparison. Moreover, the destruction of Atlantis reputedly occurred, according to Plato, exactly 12-13,000 years ago.
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Old December 13th, 2012, 08:53 AM   #28

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So the evidence for the great flood is that everything is still flooded? That the great deluge never actually receeded? Never thought of that angle before.

But how would a huge tsunami collect the soil and detritis to clog up the Straits of Gabralter? I can't see how it would have passed over enough (or any) land mass to pick it up. It would be travelling away from Atlantis, not over it. Wouldn't the counter waves created above the submerged area cross each other out, and not have the power to travel far and fast enough? The initial tsunami would be relatively clean of material.
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Old December 13th, 2012, 09:20 AM   #29

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So the evidence for the great flood is that everything is still flooded? That the great deluge never actually receeded? Never thought of that angle before.

But how would a huge tsunami collect the soil and detritis to clog up the Straits of Gabralter? I can't see how it would have passed over enough (or any) land mass to pick it up. It would be travelling away from Atlantis, not over it. Wouldn't the counter waves created above the submerged area cross each other out, and not have the power to travel far and fast enough? The initial tsunami would be relatively clean of material.
The Strait of Gibraltar is opposite the location of Atlantis on its' eastern side. Such a tsunami originating from Atlantis would have travelled in every direction. Much of the loose soil of Atlantis and considerable ocean floor sediment ( especially as it moved closer to any coastline) would also be picked up by the intense water momentum carried near the bottom of such a wave and since it could not easily pass through the Strait, a huge amount of it would have been deposited at the western base of the Straight. You only have to look at how ordinary ocean waves move sand to see this process. A 1-2 mile high tsunami would have quite likely had some portion of it travel over the mountains at Gibraltar as well. This portion would not have had much detritus in it as the detritus being heavier would most likely be concentrated nearer the bottom of the wave, especially where water movement became blocked by the mass of the two opposing mountain structures at the very narrow Gibraltar opening. Some water would have gone through the opening or over the two mountains, but the detritus would have become constricted and much of it would have remained behind.
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Old December 13th, 2012, 10:00 AM   #30

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Originally Posted by Zarin View Post
"Evidence" is something not always obvious or where you would normally expect to find it. What I am saying is that the evidence for this worldwide catastrophe will not be found around the world's current coastlines. Much of this evidence (especially once the wave fell below 300 feet in height)would now lie under the sea. Especially the further you get from where Plato stated Atlantis was. This is because the ocean levels around the world were 300-500 feet lower. However, a 1-2 mile high tsunami should have left some spectacular evidence. But where to go look for it? The final deposit of such water born detritus could have been carried far inland by such a high wave of water. And would anyone really connect such evidence, so far inland, to a colossal tsunami from the Atlantic Ocean? Most likely such evidence would be associated with regional flooding and that is assuming such evidence was readily apparent. Any ocean born flooding carries some specific evidence with it. And most ocean born evidence found at higher levels deep inland is normally connected to tectonic causalities. A connection that in some cases could be in great error if universally applied solely to tectonic origin.
You can get some clues for height and distance traveled by such a tsunami, if you assume the legend of Noah's Ark is based on a real event. How far do you think a wave capable of placing a boat up on Mt. Ararat would travel into the interior of Europe, Asia, Africa or North and South America?
Indications exist that some collosal sea borne event created the link between the Black Sea and the Mediterranean. Current dating suggests this event took place 7500 years ago. However, this "dating" might be off by 5-6,000 years, Mainly because any Atlantis "connection" could be overlooked for political or conservative reasons. However, we do know something breached the barrier between these two bodies of water. Something that very well could have occurred more than once, at an earlier date and at a far worse level. Atlantis may not have been the only land mass that disappeared into the sea, either.
There is a submerged city off the eastern coast of India that appears to have been destroyed around the same time Atlantis sank into the sea. Moreover, several other submerged sites have recently been discovered that only show street or construction grids, not structures. This type of evidence would indicate a complete sweeping away of those structures by the force of water. A tsunami.
If there were any man made structures constructed of wood or stone at Yonaguni, these too would have been completely swept away. Yonaguni does have indications of at least having been partially worked or modified by the hands of man. The debate still goes on about what actually occurred there.
Now, most assume that these various events are not connected. But that may very well be a false assumption. More and more evidence is accumulating that some very unusual water born event occurred around 12,000-13,000 years ago. What remains to be determined is what was the causality. No one with any knowledge of astrophysics would doubt the likelihood that an asteroid strike into the Atlantic or Pacific would cause most of these effects. However an asteroid strike would also leave other evidence as well. And this has not been forthcoming. Tectonic activity is not capable of creating such a collosal tsunami, but landslides are another matter. Having a large land mass even conservatively estimated as what Plato gave to the size of Atlantis sink suddenly into the ocean would make any landslide pale in comparison. Moreover, the destruction of Atlantis reputedly occurred, according to Plato, exactly 12-13,000 years ago.
Thanks for your response. What evidence would an asteroid leave which might not also be hidden beneath the sea? I'd also like to read more about this evidence for an event 12-13,000 years ago, that's not something I've come across myself so far.
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