Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > Themes in History > Speculative History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Speculative History Speculative History Forum - Alternate History, What If Questions, Pseudo History, and anything outside the boundaries of mainstream historical research


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old December 12th, 2012, 05:34 AM   #31

Linschoten's Avatar
nonpareil
 
Joined: Aug 2010
From: Wessex
Posts: 9,675
Blog Entries: 11

More about Talpade and his mercury-driven flying saucer here:
Ajit Vadakayil: SHIVKUR BAPUJI TALPADE, NOBEL PRIZE AND RACISM- CAPT AJIT VADAKAYIL

"He flew an unmanned flying saucer. It was an advanced Vedic Mercury ion plasma , imploding and expanding vortex noiseless flying machine , which could move in all directions. Accelerated pressurised Mercury when spun and thus heated gives out latent energy. Vedas had a deep understanding of Quantum physics."

Bombay Photo Images: 1895-TALPADE'S FLIGHT OVER CHOWPATHY-- Shivkar Bapuji Talpade. His plane was called ‘MarutSakha’
Linschoten is offline  
Remove Ads
Old December 12th, 2012, 05:39 AM   #32

Naomasa298's Avatar
Pepperonius Maximus
 
Joined: Apr 2010
From: T'Republic of Yorkshire
Posts: 20,285

Wait, I'm confused.

How does one fly an unmanned flying saucer? If someone's flying it, surely it's manned...
Naomasa298 is offline  
Old December 12th, 2012, 05:57 AM   #33

Linschoten's Avatar
nonpareil
 
Joined: Aug 2010
From: Wessex
Posts: 9,675
Blog Entries: 11

"Hundred years after Orville Wright’s first flight, K R N SWAMY remembers Shivkur Bapuji Talpade, the Indian who flew an unmanned aircraft, eight years before Wright.
Orville Wright demonstrated on December 17th 1903 that it was possible for a ‘manned heavier than air machine to fly’. But, in 1895, eight years earlier, the Sanskrit scholar Shivkar Bapuji Talpade had designed a basic aircraft called Marutsakthi (meaning Power of Air) based on Vedic technology and had it take off unmanned before a large audience in the Chowpathy beach of Bombay. The importance of the Wright brothers lies in the fact, that it was a manned flight for a distance of 120 feet and Orville Wright became the first man to fly. But Talpade’s unmanned aircraft flew to a height of 1500 feet before crashing down and the historian Evan Koshtka, has described Talpade as the ‘first creator of an aircraft’.

As the world observes the one hundredth anniversary of the first manned flight, it is interesting to consider the saga of India’s 19th century first aircraft inventor for his design was entirely based on the rich treasury of India’s Vedas. Shivkar Bapuji Talpade was born in 1864 in the locality of Chirabazar at Dukkarwadi in Bombay.

He was a scholar of Sanskrit and from his young age was attracted by the Vaimanika Sastra (Aeronautical Science) expounded by the great Indian sage Maharishi Bhardwaja. One western scholar of Indology Stephen-Knapp has put in simple words or rather has tried to explain what Talpade did and succeeded!

According to Knapp, the Vaimanika Shastra describes in detail, the construction of what is called, the mercury vortex engine the forerunner of the ion engines being made today by NASA. Knapp adds that additional information on the mercury engines can be found in the ancient Vedic text called Samaranga Sutradhara. This text also devotes 230 verses, to the use of these machines in peace and war. The Indologist William Clarendon, who has written down a detailed description of the mercury vortex engine in his translation of Samaranga Sutradhara quotes thus ‘Inside the circular air frame, place the mercury-engine with its solar mercury boiler at the aircraft center. By means of the power latent in the heated mercury which sets the driving whirlwind in motion a man sitting inside may travel a great distance in a most marvellous manner. Four strong mercury containers must be built into the interior structure. When these have been heated by fire through solar or other sources the vimana (aircraft) develops thunder-power through the mercury.

NASA (National Aeronau-tical and Space Administra-tion) world’s richest/ most powerful scientific organisation is trying to create an ion engine that is a device that uses a stream of high velocity electrified particles instead of a blast of hot gases like in present day modern jet engines. Surprisingly according to the bi-monthly Ancient Skies published in USA, the aircraft engines being developed for future use by NASA by some strange coincidence also uses mercury bombardment units powered by Solar cells! Interestingly, the impulse is generated in seven stages. The mercury propellant is first vapourised fed into the thruster discharge chamber ionised converted into plasma by a combination with electrons broke down electrically and then accelerated through small openings in a screen to pass out of the engine at velocities between 1200 to 3000 kilometres per minute! But so far NASA has been able to produce an experimental basis only a one pound of thrust by its scientists a power derivation virtually useless. But 108 years ago Talpade was able to use his knowledge of Vaimanika Shastra to produce sufficient thrust to lift his aircraft 1500 feet into the air!

According to Indian scholar Acharya, ‘Vaimanika Shastra deals about aeronautics including the design of aircraft the way they can be used for transportation and other applications in detail. The knowledge of aeronautics is described in Sanskrit in 100 sections, eight chapters, 500 principles and 3000 slokas including 32 techniques to fly an aircraft. In fact, depending on the classifications of eras or Yugas in modern Kaliyuga aircraft used are called Krithakavimana flown by the power of engines by absorbing solar energies!’ It is feared that only portions of Bharadwaja’s masterpiece Vaimanika Shas-tra survive today.

The question that comes to one’s mind is, what happened to this wonderful encyclopaedia of aeronautical knowledge accumulated by the Indian savants of yore, and why was it not used? But in those days, such knowledge was the preserve of sages, who would not allow it to be misused, just like the knowledge of atomic bombs is being used by terrorists today!

According to scholar Ratnakar Mahajan who wrote a brochure on Talpade. ‘Being a Sanskrit scholar interested in aeronautics, Talpade studied and consulted a number of Vedic treatises like Brihad Vaimanika Shastra of Maharishi Bharadwaja Vimanachandrika of Acharya Narayan Muni Viman yantra of Maharish Shownik Yantra Kalp by Maharishi Garg Muni Viman Bindu of Acharya Vachaspati and Vimana Gyanarka Prakashika of Maharishi Dhundiraj’. This gave him confidence that he can build an aircraft with mercury engines. One essential factor in the creation of these Vedic aircraft was the timing of the Suns Rays or Solar energy (as being now utilised by NASA) when they were most effective to activate the mercury ions of the engine. Happily for Talpade Maharaja Sayaji Rao Gaekwad of Baroda a great supporter of the Sciences in India, was willing to help him and Talpade went ahead with his aircraft construction with mercury engines. One day in 1895 (unfortunately the actual date is not mentioned in the Kesari newspaper of Pune which covered the event) before an curious scholarly audience headed by the famous Indian judge/ nationalist/ Mahadeva Govin-da Ranade and H H Sayaji Rao Gaekwad Talpade had the good fortune to see his un manned aircraft named as ‘Marutsakthi’ take off, fly to a height of 1500 feet and then fall down to earth.

But this success of an Indian scientist was not liked by the Imperial rulers. Warned by the British Government the Maharaja of Baroda stopped helping Talpade. It is said that the remains of the Marutsakthi were sold to ‘foreign parties’ by the relatives of Talpade in order to salvage whatever they can out of their loans to him. Talpade’s wife died at this critical juncture and he was not in a mental frame to continue with his researches. But his efforts to make known the greatness of Vedic Shastras was recognised by Indian scholars, who gave him the title of Vidya Prakash Pra-deep.

Talpade passed away in 1916 un-honoured, in his own country.

As the world rightly honours the Wright Brothers for their achievements, we should think of Talpade, who utilised the ancient knowledge of Sanskrit texts, to fly an aircraft, eight years before his foreign counterparts."


From here: World Mysteries - Strange Artifacts, Ancient Flying Machines
Linschoten is offline  
Old December 12th, 2012, 06:11 AM   #34

Naomasa298's Avatar
Pepperonius Maximus
 
Joined: Apr 2010
From: T'Republic of Yorkshire
Posts: 20,285

It's saucery, I tell you!
Naomasa298 is offline  
Old December 12th, 2012, 07:40 AM   #35

1991sudarshan's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jun 2011
From: São Tomé de Meliapore
Posts: 1,692

I can prove that Helen's face launched 1000 sub-marines to troy. Homer was written that.
1991sudarshan is offline  
Old December 12th, 2012, 08:12 AM   #36

Linschoten's Avatar
nonpareil
 
Joined: Aug 2010
From: Wessex
Posts: 9,675
Blog Entries: 11

Hephaistos made maidservants out of gold, who had speech and understanding and helped him around the house (since he was lame), Iliad 18.417ff, and also gold and silver dogs to guard a king's palace, Odyssey 7,91ff. No sign of any robotic crocodiles, though, in that the ancient Indians seem to have surpassed the ancient Greeks (although that may be explained by the fact that there aren't any crocodiles in Greece).
Linschoten is offline  
Old December 12th, 2012, 08:34 AM   #37

Zarin's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,464

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthera tigris altaica View Post
Several problems here. Nobody can prove that Atlanteans ever existed and nobody can prove these manuscripts weren't made for the benefit of Indian royalty by a fantastic story teller. The human race needs to give itself a bit more credit for the ancient creations then it is currently giving itself.
The Atlanteans were human. And they may not have been called Atlanteans by the Indians. Atlantis is essentially a Greek term. And I give credit where credit is due. Some human race had discovered the principles of flight.
The knowledge of propulsion and the knowledge of flight are two different things. The principles of flight, as was originally discovered long before the Wright brothers, were based on an understanding of the principles of heavier than air sustainability. Something demonstrated for millions of years by birds, bats and insects. This principle is based on shape. This "shape" may have been known about by several ancient peoples. Including the Atlanteans, Indians, Greeks, etc. It is the foundation of the word aerodynamic.
The problem essentially was not in creating this "shape" but making it light enough for any system of attached propulsion to lift it into the air. The Wright brothers were originally bicycle builders, so they were aware of how to construct strong, yet light, structures. Wood, wire and canvas were the materials they came up with. Not unlike what Leonardo Da Vinci also proposed in his own flying machine 400+ years earlier.
The propulsion system, however, is an entirely different matter. Flying creatures uses muscle energy or chemical energy. And this is extremely taxing on biological systems. So it has to be highly efficient.
The invention of the gas powered engine created the potential for a light enough device to turn a "propellor" at a speed capable of not only lifting the Wright's machine, but also moving it forward.
As mankind learned to create more powerful forms of oil based propulsion, the vehicles used could also become heavier. Currently, the jet engine is also based on a form of oil based energy release. Jet fuel. Jet propulsion and ion propulsion are not the same technologies. Even Ramjet achievement is still merely an extension of jet based technology and horrendously complicated. That is the biggest problem with faster and faster technologies, the complexities involved. And the more complex a device becomes the more likely errata will creep into it.
Ion propulsion would require a light enough device to place into any aerodynamic shape and move it not only off the ground but forward. This would require extremely advanced materials technology, as we cannot currently create an ion propulsion system both light enough and powerful enough to do as the Vedas suggest was accomplished thousands of years ago. Jet propulsion is not ion propulsion. Moreover, ion propulsion seems to be most effective in a friction free environment such as space. Especially since ion propulsion is actually a slow building form of propulsion and does not yet produce the energy level that can move a heavy object out of the atmosphere. If it ever could.
As to what the Atlanteans accomplished. They had come up with an entirely different means of propulsion. One using the ability of crystals to focus and amplify energy.Technology that is being explored in the world of LASERs. It did not take them long at all to come up with an aerodynamic shape and light enough materials. They simply used nature as their design template for shape. Wood was plentiful. They merely used the template for building sea-going ships to build their small airships. And they used a now lost crystal technology to propel these airships. Moreover, the developement of airships thousands of years ago would have given whomever possessed them very significant and powerful advantages over all ground based societies.
The main problem I am having with the descriptions of these "Vedic" devices is the weight and the expulsion of enough energy to lift a mercury based device. Mercury is a very heavy material and the technology required to get mercury ionization propulsion to work would also have to be very heavy. It would require cybernetic, chemical, fluidic, engineering and advanced material technologies. The design process for such a device would be mind boggling and way beyond what we are currently capable of. One has only to look at the materials that go into the creation of jet and a jet engine to get the picture. I am not aware of any current ion propulsion system that can lift or move such weight within an atmosphere. At least not yet. And common sense would tell you that if such technology was already possible, we would be using it.

Last edited by Zarin; December 12th, 2012 at 08:49 AM.
Zarin is offline  
Old December 12th, 2012, 01:33 PM   #38

Kevinmeath's Avatar
Acting Corporal
 
Joined: May 2011
From: Navan, Ireland
Posts: 7,726

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linschoten View Post
More about Talpade and his mercury-driven flying saucer here:
Ajit Vadakayil: SHIVKUR BAPUJI TALPADE, NOBEL PRIZE AND RACISM- CAPT AJIT VADAKAYIL


................................
Read a couple of other 'articles' on the good Captains Blog,

they sat alot about him and the accuracy (or not) of his opinons.
Kevinmeath is online now  
Old December 12th, 2012, 02:17 PM   #39

Linschoten's Avatar
nonpareil
 
Joined: Aug 2010
From: Wessex
Posts: 9,675
Blog Entries: 11

Indeed, one can learn a good deal from the Captain's blogs; did you know, for instance, that Roosevelt was a Jew? :

"During World War 2 Ireland was neutral. But secretly they were arm twisted by Rothschild Zionist Jews and Churchill to allow long range 19 hour non-stop flight US twin engine Catalina seaplanes, armed with depth charges to operate from there. If the Christians in US congress had known about this Zionist Jew President Roosevelt would have been impeached. This was arranged by Zionist Jew William Joseph Donovan, ( head of OSS –Office of strategic services ) the founder of CIA. His statue can be seen at the main entrance of the CIA building. Jew Donovan was adjunct to the Jewish judge Samuel Rosenman at the fake Nuremberg trials which meted out victor’s justice. Donovan’s Jewish mother’s name was Anna Letitia. Donovan and Roosevelt received their orders from financier Bernard Baruch , the richest man of America and a Rothschild blood agent of USA."

Oh, and Churchill was Jewish too, like Eisenhower:

"Most of us know that Winston Churchill ( his mother Jenny Jerome was Rothschild ) , General Eisenhower ( called in the academy as Swedish Jew,while actually he is German Jew ) ) and President FD Roosevelt ( Dutch Jewish ancestory ) were all Zionist Jews, totally controlled by Zionists Rothschild and their Jewish agents like Democrat US Senator Henry Morgenthau and Bernard Baruch "

The Jew Churchill drugged the honourable German aristocrat (really!) Rudolf Hess, who had come on a peace mission for Hitler, because they were desperate to learn about the ancient Indian spacecraft technology that the Germans had acquired:

"CHURCHILL AND ROOSEVELT WANTED INFORMATION FROM HESS ABOUT THE SECRET UNDERGROUND NAZI UFO PROJECT AT ANTARTICA , BASED ON MERCURY ION VORTEX VIMANA TECHNOLOGY , STOLEN FROM VEDIC SANSKRIT TEXTS FROM INDIA. Sodium Penthothal or Sodium Thiopental tried on Hess was famously associated with a number of anesthetic deaths in trauma victims of the attack on Pearl Harbour. Hess was resilient enough , but they damaged his sharp mind by repeated doses."

Last edited by Linschoten; December 12th, 2012 at 02:25 PM.
Linschoten is offline  
Old December 12th, 2012, 02:45 PM   #40

Kevinmeath's Avatar
Acting Corporal
 
Joined: May 2011
From: Navan, Ireland
Posts: 7,726

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linschoten View Post
Indeed, one can learn a good deal from the Captain's blogs; did you know, for instance, that Roosevelt was a Jew? :

"During World War 2 Ireland was neutral. But secretly they were arm twisted by Rothschild Zionist Jews and Churchill to allow long range 19 hour non-stop flight US twin engine Catalina seaplanes, armed with depth charges to operate from there. If the Christians in US congress had known about this Zionist Jew President Roosevelt would have been impeached. This was arranged by Zionist Jew William Joseph Donovan, ( head of OSS –Office of strategic services ) the founder of CIA. His statue can be seen at the main entrance of the CIA building. Jew Donovan was adjunct to the Jewish judge Samuel Rosenman at the fake Nuremberg trials which meted out victor’s justice. Donovan’s Jewish mother’s name was Anna Letitia. Donovan and Roosevelt received their orders from financier Bernard Baruch , the richest man of America and a Rothschild blood agent of USA."

Oh, and Churchill was Jewish too, like Eisenhower:

"Most of us know that Winston Churchill ( his mother Jenny Jerome was Rothschild ) , General Eisenhower ( called in the academy as Swedish Jew,while actually he is German Jew ) ) and President FD Roosevelt ( Dutch Jewish ancestory ) were all Zionist Jews, totally controlled by Zionists Rothschild and their Jewish agents like Democrat US Senator Henry Morgenthau and Bernard Baruch "

The Jew Churchill drugged the honourable German aristocrat (really!) Rudolf Hess, who had come on a peace mission for Hitler, because they were desperate to learn about the ancient Indian spacecraft technology that the Germans had acquired:

"CHURCHILL AND ROOSEVELT WANTED INFORMATION FROM HESS ABOUT THE SECRET UNDERGROUND NAZI UFO PROJECT AT ANTARTICA , BASED ON MERCURY ION VORTEX VIMANA TECHNOLOGY , STOLEN FROM VEDIC SANSKRIT TEXTS FROM INDIA. Sodium Penthothal or Sodium Thiopental tried on Hess was famously associated with a number of anesthetic deaths in trauma victims of the attack on Pearl Harbour. Hess was resilient enough , but they damaged his sharp mind by repeated doses."

I am but an ignorant fool and intellectual pygmy in the presence of such a man, so good that he is out to 'educate' the world.
Kevinmeath is online now  
Reply

  Historum > Themes in History > Speculative History

Tags
ancient, indians, spaceships


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ancient and Medieval achievements of the Indians Joshua A Asian History 222 May 5th, 2014 05:55 AM
Indians were Turkic? koseku American History 35 June 3rd, 2012 10:08 AM
American Indians vs. Asian Indians Thessalonian Speculative History 51 August 12th, 2011 09:35 AM
Pequot Indians barryguevremont New Users 12 February 8th, 2010 12:24 PM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.