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Old January 23rd, 2013, 02:02 AM   #1
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Was General Hannibal Barca a Black African?


An ebook I read says he was actually a Black African and that the original Canaanites/Phoenicians were Blacks.

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Last edited by okamido; January 23rd, 2013 at 10:49 PM. Reason: selling a book
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 02:34 AM   #2

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No, there is no reason to think that he was black, or that Phoenicians and Numidians (Berbers living in the neighborhood of Carthage) were black. That book is ridiculous.
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 02:54 AM   #3
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Today one sees a fair number of Black Africans in the population of North Africa, in Moroccoand Libya in particular, but they are descendants of sl;aves brought across the Shara in the Middle Ages.

There is no reason to believe that there were any Black Africans living north of the Sahara in Roman times, except perhaps in Egypt.

Nor is there any reason to believe that ancient Carthaginians and Phoenicians were racially different to any appreciable degree from the Lebanese of today.
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 05:10 AM   #4

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We have every reason to believe that black Africans are indigenous to North Africa. The idea that black populations in N Africa are simply the descendents of slaves is nothing more but a projection of Western historiography associated with New world slavery being projected into ancient history.

The Berbers are the indigenes of N. Africa. And. Berber is a language. The speakers of Berberic language range from lightskin coastal Berbers to the Tuareg, who during the NAto No fly zone were referred to as black mercenaries.

As far as I am aware the Dna studies show that N African Dna maternally is European whereas paternally it is associated with Africans further south. You cant say its slavery. The slave trade of the Sahara revolved mostly around African women and yet it is the maternal ancestry of N Africa which links it to Europe.
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 05:43 AM   #5

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One of the Roman legions serving in modern England, had been raised in North Africa and was often described as "black-skinned"... I cannot offer a source for that atm, but when I find it, that should be the proof, that there were indeed black-skinned Africans living in the northern part of Africa at the time. Not thereby said that Hannibal was black.
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 05:52 AM   #6

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Quote:
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One of the Roman legions serving in modern England, had been raised in North Africa and was often described as "black-skinned"
This cannot be any solid proof. The term "black-skinned" might be a description of their skin compared to native Britons and/or Romans.
We should cease studying history through our perception and try to read the ancient books and sources from their writer's point of view.
An Arab would be considered black in medieval Germany (for example). A dark-haired Roman with a slight tan would be considered milk-white in ancient Ethiopia.


PS. Am I noticing a certain tendency of "discovering" black historical figures? What's the point in finding the pigmentation or race of a certain person? What will we be discussing next, the pubic hair length of Decius? "Hey guys, I've read a book which claims that Vespasian had anchor tattoos on his buttocks, prove me wrong!" ?

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Old January 23rd, 2013, 06:04 AM   #7

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We will never know, but it is interesting to note that in Picard's study of Carthaginian tombs back in the 50s and 60s, they made some discoveries:

The anthropological examination of skeletons found in tombs in Carthage proves that there is no racial unity [...] The so called Semitic type, characterized by the long, perfectly oval face, the thin aquiline nose and the lengthened cranium, enlarged over the nape of the neck has not been found in Carthage. On the other hand, another cranial form, with a fairly short face, prominent parietal bumps, farther forward and lower down than is usual is common [...] most of the Punic population in Carthage had African and even Negro ancestors" (Daily Life in Carthage at the Time of Hannibal, Charles Picard)

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Old January 23rd, 2013, 06:16 AM   #8

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romeoandler View Post
An ebook I read says he was actually a Black African and that the original Canaanites/Phoenicians were Blacks.
What is the e-book and is it avaliable to view on line?
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 06:51 AM   #9

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Cozy, traditional history tells us he was 'Semitic' or 'Caucasian'.

Afro-Centric history tells us he was black.

I suppose we will just have to content ourselves with the fact that he probably had a very good tan, and his 'ethnicity' (like that of everyone else in history) had no influence on what he was capable of achieving.
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 07:16 AM   #10
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most of the carthagian coins i have seen show picture of goddess Tanit, but i guess their images of dieties were not too drasticly different than how they also saw themselves. Also in some other coins there are male figures.

Of course these can't give back skin tones

Zeno - Oriental Coins Database - Carthage, c. 300-264 BC

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482. Silbershekel 300/264 v. Chr., Karthago. Kopf der Tanit / Pferd mit rückwärts gewandtem Kopf vor Dattelpalme, im Feld Stern. SNG Cop. 141. 7.59 g. Selten Vorzüglich
Schätzung (estimation): 750,-- EUR

Zeno - Oriental Coins Database - Carthage, Second Punic War, Occupation of Bruttium by Hannibal, 215-205 BC

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#89710: Carthage, Second Punic War, Occupation of Bruttium by Hannibal, 215-205 BC


Wreathed head of Tanit left / Horse standing right.

Zeno - Oriental Coins Database - Carthage, c. 237-209 BC

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SPAIN, Vicinity of Gades. Carthaginian Occupation. Circa 237-209 BC. AR Shekel (7.40 gm, 12h). Diademed male head (Hamilcar?) left / Prow of galley right with shield on its deck; below, dolphin right. Cf. MHC 15-19 (unlisted dies); CNH pg. 64, 10; Robinson, Punic 4(c); SNG BM Spain 91; SNG Copenhagen Supp. 1332. Good VF, lightly toned, light scratches from cleaning under tone. Very rare. ($3000)

Zeno - Oriental Coins Database - Carthage, Second Punic War, c. 220/218-201 BC

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753038. SICULO-PUNIC. Second Punic War. 221-201 BC. AR Quarter Shekel (16mm, 2.05 gm, 11h). Akragas mint. Struck circa 213-211 BC. Sold For $365

SICULO-PUNIC. Second Punic War. 221-201 BC. AR Quarter Shekel (16mm, 2.05 gm, 11h). Akragas mint. Struck circa 213-211 BC. Male head right, wearing grain-ear wreath / Horse running right; Punic "H T" below. Burnett 152 (same dies); Visona 56; SNG Copenhagen (Carthage) 379. Good VF, light iridescent toning.

Zeno - Oriental Coins Database - Carthage, Second Punic War, c. 220/218-201 BC

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CARTHAGE. Circa 221-201 BC. AR Shekel * Didrachm (6.84 gm). Second Punic War issue, struck circa 213-210 BC. Male head left / Elephant walking right; Punic "A" in exergue. Visona 55; MAA -; SNG Copenhagen 382. Superb EF, struck from worn dies. ($1500)
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