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Old July 11th, 2013, 01:47 AM   #101

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Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
Actually, Afrocentrists have already claimed Rome...and China!

As well as Greece, India and Mexico, the Vikings, Hannibal, Cleopatra, Socrates, Severus...

It all started with Egypt.

Check out Youtube if you don't believe me.
And Julius Ceasar.
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Old July 11th, 2013, 05:41 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by jehosafats View Post
By naming the likes of MacRitchie, Massey, Higgins, and the like, I was addressing this canard that the notion of dark-skinned Vikings was conjured up by Afrocentrics; that is a fiction (and having read these authors, they're not nearly as naive as you make them to be). Also, I mention Gwyn Jones because he leaves open the specter of dark-skinned peoples in northern Europe and doesn't just deny it outright or fall behind some vague notion of an 'off-white' dichotomy.
I'm one of the few people who owns an original of MacRitchie's Ancient And Modern Britons. Afrocentrists distort this work, and have never even read it properly. The dark skinned Stone Age natives of Britain MacRitchie maintains were people of Australoid physiognomy, mostly who migrated from the East [largely moving from across India, and Southeast Asia] not "Blacks", from Africa.

Its also amusing to see Afrocentrists (mis)quoting MacRitchie. Throughout his work, he actually maintains that the dark skinned Australoids, were primitives and savages - not capable of building or any high culture, who were later almost exterminated by xanthochroi "white people" who arrived from the late Neolithic or Bronze Age, only surviving in very remote regions across Britain, to be remembered in folklore. Strangely though Afrocentrists maintain that the original dark aborigines had a superior civilization - the exact opposite of what MacRitchie wrote.
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Old July 11th, 2013, 05:56 PM   #103
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Here is my first reference to Natufians:
http://historum.com/general-history/...vikings-4.html
"Is it really? As early as 1972 Larry Angel already noted that the spread of agriculture to europe through demic diffusion was through a middle eastern/ Levantine culture known as Natufians, believed to be offspring of subsaharan Africans intermarrying with middle easterners. Later studies by Brace et al seem to reinforce that"

That is a description of Natufians before you decided to remind me that they were not Subsaharan Africans.
Natufians were not involved in spreading agriculture to Europe. That's just another Afrocentric online-myth. See the map below.

Click the image to open in full size.

Pinhasi R, von Cramon-Taubadel N (2009) Craniometric Data Supports Demic Diffusion Model for the Spread of Agriculture into Europe. PLoS ONE 4(8): e6747.
PLOS ONE: Craniometric Data Supports Demic Diffusion Model for the Spread of Agriculture into Europe
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Old July 11th, 2013, 06:09 PM   #104
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I believe the most responsible and balanced and intellectually sceptical post in this thread is this by Jehosafats:

http://historum.com/general-history/...vikings-2.html

"Anybody who dismisses this as nonsense or simply "Afrocentric" hasn't really examined the history of the Old Norse World or read certain 19-20th century authors like Sir Godfrey Higgins, Albert Churchward, David MacRitchie, Gwyn Jones, etc, who either provide substantial oevidence this was the case or don't exactly rule it out (nevermind laugh it off).

Most people seem to believe the Vikings were some pure (white) race of people, which couldn't be any further from the truth. Gwyn Jones got it right: "The viking peoples who lived between the neck of Jutland and the Lofotens, Sogn, and Uppsala, were not all alike, and emphatically not of one 'pure' Nordic race." (A History Of The Vikings, pg. 67-68)

In my own research I've come across certain characters like the Heljarskin twins, one of whom (Giermundr Heljarskin) became a powerful landowner in Rogaland in western Norway. They were likely originally from Denmark. The kicker is, according to some modern Old Norse scholars, most of these dark-skinned inhabitants were Celtic.

I suspect, whoever these folks were, they were not what I would call African, but then they weren't Indo-European either; they likely had no recent connection to the continent but grew in-situ dating back to the Neolithic.

In all honesty it isn't easy to call race from lexical items such as blár and svartr. Particularly with svartr (black), where one prominent scholar contends, at least from what fragments we have: "Often it is not entirely clear if the color adjective refers to hair color or complexion."

MacRitchie provided innumerable coat-of-arms depicting people we commonly call Africans, but that isn't always representative of a particular person or family, and could very well be copied from places like Spain, France and Italy where the Moors had actually settled. Yet, MacRitchie does provide some richly detailed pictorial evidence of dark-skinned knights that I don't think can be easily dismissed. Where his research stands at this point isn't exactly clear. I began one up-to-date review of his oeuvre but never got a chance to finish it. Someone here posted it. I'd love to get my hands on that again.

In short, there were dark-skinned "vikings" (a name derived from the Dubh-gall/Danes who were said to have many according to Greco-Roman historians) but we know very little about them, nor how to distinguish them with any real precision."

The mockery and overreactions to it are frankly deluded, in my humble opinion.
He doesn't know anything about those authors he's quoted. Afrocentrists just distort these people without ever even reading/understanding their work. Afrocentrism is this aspect is very similar how Young Earth Creationists quote-mine out of context or distort literature.

The three key authors Afrocentrists distort from are: David MacRitchie, Godfrey Higgins, and Grafton Elliot Smith.
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Old July 11th, 2013, 06:15 PM   #105

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Originally Posted by Atlantids View Post
I'm one of the few people who owns an original of MacRitchie's Ancient And Modern Britons. Afrocentrists distort this work, and have never even read it properly. The dark skinned Stone Age natives of Britain MacRitchie maintains were people of Australoid physiognomy, mostly who migrated from the East [largely moving from across India, and Southeast Asia] not "Blacks", from Africa.

Its also amusing to see Afrocentrists (mis)quoting MacRitchie. Throughout his work, he actually maintains that the dark skinned Australoids, were primitives and savages - not capable of building or any high culture, who were later almost exterminated by xanthochroi "white people" who arrived from the late Neolithic or Bronze Age, only surviving in very remote regions across Britain, to be remembered in folklore. Strangely though Afrocentrists maintain that the original dark aborigines had a superior civilization - the exact opposite of what MacRitchie wrote.
I own the first two volumes. In no way did I distort his work. I know he figured a number of these dark-skinned peoples were "Australoid" (he was of the mind that Attila, for instance, was a black Australoid). Spare me the thread-to-thread admonishments of what you perceive as Afrocentricism.

Further, its my contention these dark-skinned populations arrived much too early to simply be called Africans. I thought I made that clear. And not that it matters, but MacRitchie often pointed to depictions on northern blazonry to speculate extra-Australoid populations (ie: dark-skinned strangers of whatever origins).
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Old July 11th, 2013, 06:27 PM   #106
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I own the first two volumes. In no way did I distort his work. I know he figured a number of these dark-skinned peoples were "Australoid" (he was of the mind that Attila, for instance, was a black Australoid). Spare me the thread-to-thread admonishments of what you perceive as Afrocentricism.

Further, its my contention these dark-skinned populations arrived much too early to simply be called Africans. I thought I made that clear. And not that it matters, but MacRitchie often pointed to depictions on northern blazonry to speculate extra-Australoid populations (ie: dark-skinned strangers of whatever origins).
Do you have originals?

Because if you have these:

Amazon.com: Ancient And Modern Britons: Vol. 1 (9781592322251): David Mac Ritchie: Books
Amazon.com: Ancient And Modern Britons: Vol. 1 (9781592322251): David Mac Ritchie: Books


They are fakes from an Afrocentric publisher "African Tree". The image on the front does not appear in the original; some text inside has been modified, and then the "Introduction" completely distorts MacRitchie's views.

Also look at the reviews from Afrocentrics:

" think this book is a must for all serious Historians. It was written before the systematic cover up of Africans on the world scene"

-- Yet, where does MacRitchie even mention Africans in the book?

Macritchie's Australoids are not Negroids, Africanoids, "Black Africans" or even Africans... In fact he makes this clear on the first few pages.

Afrocentrists can't even read.
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Old July 11th, 2013, 06:30 PM   #107

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He doesn't know anything about those authors he's quoted. Afrocentrists just distort these people without ever even reading/understanding their work. Afrocentrism is this aspect is very similar how Young Earth Creationists quote-mine out of context or distort literature.

The three key authors Afrocentrists distort from are: David MacRitchie, Godfrey Higgins, and Grafton Elliot Smith.
Actually, Sir Grafton Elliot Smith was a hyperdiffusionist author who argued every civilization sprung out of ancient Egypt. Never have I cited him for any reason. Sir Godfrey Higgins was another occult author who made some interesting insights into "Eastern" religions and populations. I mentioned him only because, again, these ideas aren't new.

Your crusade against "Afrocentrism" is shallow my friend. Instead of debating on the merits, you do things like resurrect threads merely to impugn people's intentions. When you're so desperate to debate a real-live 'Afrocentrist', gee, why not imagine them wherever possible. You can build another strawman, knock'em down, and claim a moral victory for whatever it is you believe (I suspect you're a stormfronter). But lets not pretend it has anything to do with me.
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Old July 11th, 2013, 06:38 PM   #108

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Do you have originals?
I wish.

I take the introduction for what it is, a plea to take MacRitchie seriously. Still, my only interest was the text. I discovered the image on the cover of Vol I comes from the Heraldic Collection of Sir Thomas Wriothesley, Garter King-of-Arms, 1504-1534.
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Old July 11th, 2013, 06:51 PM   #109
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Actually, Sir Grafton Elliot Smith was a hyperdiffusionist author who argued every civilization sprung out of ancient Egypt. Never have I cited him for any reason. Sir Godfrey Higgins was another occult author who made some interesting insights into "Eastern" religions and populations. I mentioned him only because, again, these ideas aren't new.

Your crusade against "Afrocentrism" is shallow my friend. Instead of debating on the merits, you do things like resurrect threads merely to impugn people's intentions. When you're so desperate to debate a real-live 'Afrocentrist', gee, why not imagine them wherever possible. You can build another strawman, knock'em down, and claim a moral victory for whatever it is you believe (I suspect you're a stormfronter). But lets not pretend it has anything to do with me.
Smith wrote that the Proto-Egyptians were a "brown race". So the Afrocentrists quote that, but deliberately cut off the following from the same text (The Ancient Egyptians and the Origin of Civilization):

"Proto-Egyptian was precisely similar to that of the brunet South European"

and, that their hair:

"presented no resemblance whatever to the so-called ‘wooly’ appearance and peppercorn-like arrangement of the Negro’s hair"

Indeed, he then goes on to assert their Caucasoid, Mediterranean race affinities. Smith never considered the ancient Egyptians to be "Black". Likewise, Afrocentrists distort Higgins, where he writes of a "dark" skinned or "black" race of Cushites but in a footnote he cautions that these people were not Negroid or "Black" Africans (Anacalypsis, vol. 1, p. 52). You won't find that footnote cited on any Afrocentric forum or webpage where Higgins is though distorted.

As you can see Afrocentrists are intellectually dishonest, but yes, i've made a hobby out of exposing them as charlatans.
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Old July 11th, 2013, 07:00 PM   #110

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