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Old July 11th, 2009, 06:37 AM   #21

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Re: Would the Mongols have conquered western Europe?


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Originally Posted by Belisarius View Post
Would the Mongols have conquered western Europe?

Yes, next.
OK, next, the Mongols would have added their DNA to the mix and the history of western Europe would have proceeded pretty much as it did in the real time line.
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Old July 11th, 2009, 08:18 AM   #22

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Re: Would the Mongols have conquered western Europe?


Nope they would not have conquered the whole of western europe. Probably as far as France but England and Spain? I don't see how they could pull that off.

First its important to consider the climate and terrain. Mongols would simply be out of their element in western europe.
Look at India climate and terrain caused them to never defeat Zafar khan. In fact whenver their horses got startled they'd ask "Have you seen Zafar Khan" this is probably just a legend but It's obvious the indian general casued so much terror on the mongols. But it wasn't Zafar khan's genius that played the most part in mongol defeats. It was the fact that the mongols were handicapped in indian terrain and climate

The same story in Vietnam. 3 campaigns and they never fully conquered Vietnam.

European terrain is perfect for geyrilla tactics.Needless to say mongols as well as most conventiopnal armires don't do well agaisnt geurillas. Korean geurillas were pretty effective. As a result the Mongols focesed on diplomacy to reduce Korea into a vassal state but they did not truelly conquer them. and lets not forget Samara bend, klis fortress and Lithuania.

Lastly Naval warfare. I just can't see how the mongols would pose a real threat to England with their close to zero knowledge on nraval warfare. Vietnam and Japan proves their incompetence in naval wafare
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Old July 11th, 2009, 01:45 PM   #23
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Re: Would the Mongols have conquered western Europe?


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Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post


European terrain is perfect for geyrilla tactics.Needless to say mongols as well as most conventiopnal armires don't do well agaisnt geurillas. Korean geurillas were pretty effective. As a result the Mongols focesed on diplomacy to reduce Korea into a vassal state but they did not truelly conquer them. and lets not forget Samara bend, klis fortress and Lithuania.
I think you are right in climate and terrain, but geurillas tactic is not at all.
The reasons the modern armies has been in troubles of geurilla tactic is U.S. or Nazi didn't wanna be criticized severely by the international communities.

For instance, U.S. even in Iraq War has been always taking care of civilians. But, for Mongol, they would just wipe off anyone suspicious without any laws. In other words, if Mongols found out there were some civilians related incidents that inflicted them, they would kill entire castle, town, and city.

By doing so, Mongols wanted to show horrors for its enemy and pushed them to seek a peace rather than war.
U.S. or any other countries in the modern world can not do so due to fear of U.N. and the Geneva Laws.
(Though U.S. is the only nation in the world, whose soldiers can be only persecuted by U.S. Department of Defense, which often the International Prosecutors (mostly the 3rd nationality) have an authorty to put charges on soldiers)

For Mongols, they don't worry about any criticism from other countries, but worry about their soldiers, who were killed by geurillas. Of course, in that time, there was no notion that military should distinguish civilians from military personnel, but just a notion that enemy's citizens were just enemy even though they were children, women, or the elder.
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Old July 11th, 2009, 02:01 PM   #24
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Re: Would the Mongols have conquered western Europe?


yes, and the mongols despite defeating and ravaging poland, hungary, couldn't hold it for any length, where does that leave any possible conquest of western europe?

Western Europe would be a bridge too far.
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Old July 11th, 2009, 02:05 PM   #25
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Re: Would the Mongols have conquered western Europe?


Lastly, the Mongols don't view Europe as attractve places where they could plunder tons of gold, wealth, or slavery. So, they asksed themselves why they should conqueor all obsolete European continent with bloody wars. They askem themselves
"Rather why don't we just spare mercy but push them under our greatest Khan? "

It should be undestood that Mongols didn't have to exert themselves on conqueoring Europeans, whereas for Europeans, it was a matter of their soverignty and everything.

That is why Mongols also continuosly initiated to attack China, where they thought they did really have a reason to conqueor.
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Old July 11th, 2009, 06:42 PM   #26
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Re: Would the Mongols have conquered western Europe?


yep, the mongols were pretty much a disease that western europe luckily avoided.
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Old August 11th, 2009, 04:33 PM   #27

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Re: Would the Mongols have conquered western Europe?


Mongols couln't ruled where they invaded long. Even if they would invade the west Europea. They would withdraw soon.

I think first they would convert to Christianity. later witdraw.
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Old August 11th, 2009, 05:30 PM   #28

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Re: Would the Mongols have conquered western Europe?


Western Europe really wasn't good terrain for light cavalry.

"We have them now!" laughed Temujin. "Foolish Europeans, they thought they could stand against us."

"Let's sweep them aside like the worms they are," cried Mojac. "Charge!"

Raising his lance, the first Mongol leader signaled to his men. Instants later, the forest echoed to the sound of a thousand hoof beats as an invincible line of warriors thundered toward their hapless foe. Ahead, the puny company of French peasants cowered beneath the trees.

"Prepare to d... OOOF!" grunted Temujin as he got knocked off his saddle by an overhanging branch.
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Old August 12th, 2009, 02:50 AM   #29

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Re: Would the Mongols have conquered western Europe?


^^

I chuckled.

But in all seriousness, I'd maintain that the Mongols would have done just fine in Europe. Although they are best known for their incredible cavalry, especially in archery, they were when necessary capable of working on foot, and quite handily too, as the Chinese found to their disadvantage on a number of occaisons.
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Old August 12th, 2009, 08:54 AM   #30

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Re: Would the Mongols have conquered western Europe?


They needed vast amount of army to keep hold of vast amount of land they invaded right.

May be they didn't had power to keep Europea with the rest of the world.?
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