Stephan

Sometimes i ask myself, what IF. What if Germany wouldnt have lost the war. Obviously that would mean they would have won it, right?

But i am not going to stop here. Its interesting that when people talk about the outcome of Germany winning the WW II, they dont really discuss about the possible outcomes in that case.

For instance, for me, it seems totally unrealistic for Germany to win the war (They might have taken Europe, but not America). But lets say they would have beaten the Russians. Then what?

For a start, they would have gained a huge territorial boost, what obviously would have made them look stronger in every sense. In that case The west presumably would have been interested of making peace with Germany?

Everyone also knows on how many different fronts Germany had to fight. Especially after USA joined WW II, but what if USA had waited longer?

What if Germany had gained the east, then what? Go all guns out for UK? And then what?

Discuss

Son of Cathal

This should probably go in speculative history

Stephan

For give me, i just saw the speculative history section.

Son of Cathal

Nothing to forgive. Don't worry about it. A mod will put it in the right place

oshron

ive brought up probably a dozen times before now, but if germany beat russia AND britain as they did in robert harris' Fatherland, germany would probably have essentially acquired the role that the soviet union had in the ensuing years, as in a cold war and arms race with america. note that america would probably still have atomic bombs while germany had V-3 ICBMs

Titan

I've thought about it a lot as well. I'm reading a book on the rise and fall of ther 3rd Reich.

1) If Hitler and Goring would've listened to Heinkel, Germany would have developed a very effective strategic bomber and Escort fighter. Fortunately for the allies, Heinkel never played politics as well as Foke-Wulf and Messerschmidt did so a sound strategic bomber and fighter escort was never developed.

2) Hitler's execution of Jews got rid of millions of potential scientists, researchers, and military leaders. At the beginning, Jews in Germany were supporting Hitler in his speechs about forcing Jews of the East out of Germany... unfortunately they soon realized what Hitler really meant. The German Army didn't even want to purge their jJews because they knew the fact that many of their key military leaders were Jew. Fortunately for the allies this meant a smaller army to deal with.

3) Hitler's micromangement of the war was absolutely hilarious, I hear some of the stuff he did and I just laugh and can't help but to think of what was going through his dilusional mind while he was off in his own little world. Which most of his operational plans were made in... his own world of how he wanted things instead of what they really were. Silly Hitler.

4) Over engineering and expenditure of war money to unnecessary projects was another downfall... Instead of making all these insanely spectacular aircraft or ICBMs and spent them on more bombs, more tanks, more airplanes, more logistics... his forces would have been way more effective.

But what if, Hitler developed a strategic bombing force with fighter escorts, what if Hitler kept the people he had supporting him instead of gassing them, what if Hitler put his money to more artillery shells, tanks, weapons, and bombs, what if he didn't attack Russia, what if he trusted his Generals, what if he had his head on straight? I mean if he could mess up that much and get as far as he did... if fate hadn't intervened, or so it seemed as it did, I think it would be a completely different world. I don't think we could go as far as the US speaking German but modern politics, American foreign policies, the cold war, and the innovations stemming out from those specific events would have completely changed the world today I think.

BTW, the book I'm reading where I'm getting a great deal of info from is called Cross Of Iron The Rise and Fall Of The German War Machine 1918-1945 by John Mosier. I highly recommend it, I have learned sooooo much from this book.

Sandydragon

If the USSR had fallen, and the british forces in tN Africa beaten then there would have been huge pressure on Churchill to step down and Britain would probably have negotiated a peace.

The chances of germany invaded Britain in 1940 or for a few years after that were slim given the lack of ability on the German side to stage such an invasion against a defended shoreline.

With a Europe completely under their control, germany could have developed the techniques to carry out a seaborne invasion or concentrated assets in the UBoat campaign which was very dangerous.

Thankfully, Op Barbarossa was fatally delayed by the Balkan campaigns in 1941 which meant the Germans ran otu of time. Im also not so sure that the Blitzkrieg tactics used could have beaten the USSR. Very effective in limited time and space to throw an opponent off guard but less effective when an enemy can trade space for time.

xander.XVII

Thinking that URSS had defeated by Germany, for me, also a strategic victory against british forces in Africa and after an occupation of Suez Channel would have been impossible for germans to invade UK because they would have needed of a largest fleet of transport(not the fleet collected barely in all the french harbours and after put on Antwerp and Ostenda) over that a reconstituted Luftwaffe able to compete against the RAF and USAF together.
After all so for me the german invasion if UK would have been impossible neither with the russian industrial bases (but we do not have to forget that the majority of russians factories had been transferred near the Urals and over them).

Optiow

I am sorry, but I just can not grasp how Germany could have ever pacified the Soviet Union. They just did not have the manpower, and the Russians did. The Russians had more industry etc in the depths of Siberia that lets face it, the Germans could have never reached.

If by some fluke they did win, it would have been chaos. Partisans would have fought to the death and the Germans would not be safe in that country. Even when the Germans controled some of Russia, entire areas were controled by Partisans who killed any German who tresspassed there.

But as for the invasion of Britain, Germany would have needed a stronger bomber force with heavier 4 engined bombers. I think though that if Hitler had given more support to the U-boats in the 1930's and had a big fleet of them in the early war years and months the Germans could have won.

Toltec

If Germany had won in Russia, the question of what next in the Pacific Theatre would raise its head. Germany was at war with the US would it have helped Japan? and how?

Britain un-invadable [the only having two landing craft mentioned in other posts] but the middle east wasn't, potentially neither was India. Perhaps even the Luftwaffe could have started deploying in Japan and U-Boats operating out of Japanese ports. Japans would also have solved it's cronic oil shortage getting supplies from the Black Sea.