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Old November 23rd, 2012, 11:45 AM   #51

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Originally Posted by ki-en-gar from ki-en-gir View Post
Try to explain to me why "Alexander's" horse army present "historians" name a shameful word, ἑτaῖροι =hetairoi, meaning the prostitute?
In "Ancient" Greece ἑτaίρa=hetaira =prostitute,
ἑτaῖροι =hetairoi = ostensibly, "partner" (??? ) - "linguists" translate now.
And a root that one!!!: hetair .И means this word: "the Sexual partner".
Only ἑτaίρa - was the PAID PROSTITUTE...
And ἑτaῖροι - there were boys from neighbour's families or relatives.... And them-these boys, used FREE OF CHARGE and under the CONSENT of the FATHER of the boy.
I see already that pseudo-linguists take for a ride to us.
Who and why has deformed Turkic word HEiTAR, GEJDAR meaning the most capable part of a horse army, its advance party?
Ok, time to end this madness once and for all.

Let me get to this straight, I won't talk to you as a "linguist", but as someone who can speak Greek natively. The primary meaning of the word ἑταῖρος/ὦταῖρος means "companion", "comrade". The horsemen you speak of as ἑταῖρoι are the companion cavalry of Alexander or a Macedonian King! Then you have the πεζέταιροι (πεζοί = pedestrians + ἑταῖροι = companions) who are the phalanx soldiers/infantry.

So, the prostitute εταῖρα you mentioned means litterarly escort girl which in turn you may translate as prostitute.

And one more note...The E in έταιροι that is transliterated as hetaroi, is not pronounced as an English H and an E together. It is an /e/ sound with a special breathing while pronouncing it, being marked with an H. That is a small detail that even people who study ancient Greek, never learn. So the he- in heitar is not the same he- as in hἑταῖρoι.

Just to separate facts from fiction...

Last edited by Midas; November 23rd, 2012 at 12:21 PM.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 12:24 PM   #52
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Before to justify obvious adjustment of the word ἑταῖρος / ὦταῖρος which wasn't in all Greek's languages( which was much) in 3, 4th century BC? and didn't mean a word SOLDIERS!
Find to me an exact word meaning ἑταῖρος / ὦταῖρος in 3rd, 4th century B.C., instead of that variant which has appeared 300-400 years later, and it is possible also one thousand years later.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 12:35 PM   #53
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And at last, why the pedestrian Greek soldiers were called GOPLiTes in 3, 4th century BC, but in the fantastic fairy tales written of 400 years after the pedestrian soldiers appear suddenly and unexpectedly as the πεζέταιροι (πεζοί = pedestrians + ἑταῖροι = companions)??????
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 03:02 PM   #54

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Originally Posted by ki-en-gar from ki-en-gir View Post
Before to justify obvious adjustment of the word ἑταῖρος / ὦταῖρος which wasn't in all Greek's languages( which was much) in 3, 4th century BC? and didn't mean a word SOLDIERS!
First of all re-read your sentence and tell me what you understand of it. What do you mean Greek languages? You mean dialects? I doubt that back then Greek had diverged that much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ki-en-gar from ki-en-gir View Post
Find to me an exact word meaning ἑταῖρος / ὦταῖρος in 3rd, 4th century B.C., instead of that variant which has appeared 300-400 years later, and it is possible also one thousand years later.
Antiphon, 5th century B.C
ἐπειδὴ γὰρ ἐδεδειπνήκεσαν, οἷον εἰκός, ὁ μὲν θύων Διὶ Κτησίῳ κἀκεῖνον ὑποδεχόμενος, ὁ δ᾽ ἐκπλεῖν τε μέλλων καὶ παρ᾽ ἀνδρὶ ἑταίρῳ αὑτοῦ δειπνῶν, σπονδάς τ᾽ ἐποιοῦντο καὶ λιβανωτὸν ὑπὲρ αὑτῶν ἐπετίθεσαν.
After supper was over, the two naturally set about pouring libations and sprinkling some frankincense to secure the favour of heaven, as the one was offering sacrifice to Zeus Ctesius and entertaining the other, and his companion was supping with a friend and on the point of putting out to sea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ki-en-gar from ki-en-gir
And at last, why the pedestrian Greek soldiers were called GOPLiTes in 3, 4th century BC, but in the fantastic fairy tales written of 400 years after the pedestrian soldiers appear suddenly and unexpectedly as the πεζέταιροι (πεζοί = pedestrians + ἑταῖροι = companions)??????
Οπλίτες you mean...Latinized hoplites (again this is not an English H and O together). Because όπλον means weapon and they are the weapon carriers.

I do not know why you find weird the fact that millitary terminology, changes by time? Mind that millitary horses in Greek, got the term άλογον (a-= without, logos = speech) in Hellenistic years, because they were the part of the army that had no speech.

Now what are those fantastic fairy tales written 400 years later exactly?
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 04:23 PM   #55
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Again you want "to pull a parrot on the globe".I'm assured, it is necessary to translate here so:
"After supper was over, the two naturally set about pouring libations and sprinkling some frankincense to secure the favour of heaven, as the one was offering sacrifice to Zeus Ctesius and entertaining the other, and his sexual partner was supping with a friend and on the point of putting out to sea."

At you unpersuasive attempt to replace concept "the sexual partner" on "soldiers".
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 05:01 PM   #56
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Now I will destroy your assumptions that paleoeuropean in 3, 4th century BC in general had a cavalry.
Before to have a cavalry with horsemen, it was necessary to have leather trousers to remain sitting on a croup of a horse.But leather trousers at them wasn't. Moreover, there were no also saddles with stirrups.
These paleoeuropean could steal the ridden out horse at nomads, but they weren't able to accustom young horses to a saddle.
They didn't know in general when and at what age of a horse it is necessary to start training of a horse to a saddle.
Wasn't at them and skills to accustom horses to a saddle.
Even more cheerfully the following thought looks: to catch a young horse again the horse under a saddle and the horseman is necessary, able to operate a horse and simultaneously capable to catch a mad stallion.
Skill of taming of horses - the strict military secret of nomads, and they didn't transfer it to enemies. Moreover, presence of stirrups at nomads was unknown for some centuries even to their nearest settled neighbors!
Look narrowly at leather trousers of nomads: They are decorated by gold or copper elements which were sewn to a skin, but it after all not an ornament!!!
It is an element of the military equipment, allowing to lower the center of gravity and to increase a friction between a saddle and trousers.
If to believe to you, what in 3, 4th century BC at paleoeuropean there was all this equipment and there was an ability to operate a horse where this ability and equipment was gone later????
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 05:09 PM   #57

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It was suggested this was resulted from an injury.
I don't know what it was from but I would think it would be from a condition he had from birth never read anything on how he got it though
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Old November 24th, 2012, 02:20 AM   #58

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ki-en-gar from ki-en-gir View Post
Again you want "to pull a parrot on the globe".I'm assured, it is necessary to translate here so:
"After supper was over, the two naturally set about pouring libations and sprinkling some frankincense to secure the favour of heaven, as the one was offering sacrifice to Zeus Ctesius and entertaining the other, and his sexual partner was supping with a friend and on the point of putting out to sea."

At you unpersuasive attempt to replace concept "the sexual partner" on "soldiers".
You better watch your mouth now. You are in front of everyone, trying to convince a native speaker of a language, how a word is used!!! Are you serious?

I was straight forward. I am not making things up here and you can verify from my links. ἑταῖρος = companion, comrade. Escort girl is ἑταῖρα while πόρνη is prostitute.

Also, when pontic Greeks use the word, they do not refer to sexual partners, but friends. This is not a dead word!!!

There are gazilions of uses for the world.

Aeschines. 1 148
ἀλλ᾽ ἐπεὶ οὖν, φίλ᾽ ἑταῖρε, σεῦ ὕστερος εἶμ᾽ ὑπὸ γαῖαν,
οὔ σε πρὶν κτεριῶ, πρίν γ᾽ Ἕκτορος ἐνθάδ᾽ ἐνεῖκαι
τεύχεα καὶ κεφαλήν, μεγαθύμου σεῖο φονῆος.
But since, dear comrade, after thee I go
beneath the earth, I will not bury thee
Till here I bring thee Hector's head and arms,
The spoils of that proud prince who took thy life.
and more...

Herodotus 5.95
ταῦτα δὲ Ἀλκαῖος ἐν μέλεϊ ποιήσας ἐπιτιθεῖ ἐς Μυτιλήνην, ἐξαγγελλόμενος τὸ ἑωυτοῦ πάθος Μελανίππῳ ἀνδρὶ ἑταίρῳ
Alcaeus "wrote"/composed a poem about this and sent it to Mytilene. In it he relates his own misfortune to his comrade Melanippus.
Do you want me to bring the whole Greek litterature and list the millions of uses of ἑταίρος?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ki-en-gar from ki-en-gir View Post
Now I will destroy your assumptions that paleoeuropean in 3, 4th century BC in general had a cavalry.
Before to have a cavalry with horsemen, it was necessary to have leather trousers to remain sitting on a croup of a horse.But leather trousers at them wasn't. Moreover, there were no also saddles with stirrups.
These paleoeuropean could steal the ridden out horse at nomads, but they weren't able to accustom young horses to a saddle.
They didn't know in general when and at what age of a horse it is necessary to start training of a horse to a saddle.
Wasn't at them and skills to accustom horses to a saddle.
Even more cheerfully the following thought looks: to catch a young horse again the horse under a saddle and the horseman is necessary, able to operate a horse and simultaneously capable to catch a mad stallion.
Skill of taming of horses - the strict military secret of nomads, and they didn't transfer it to enemies. Moreover, presence of stirrups at nomads was unknown for some centuries even to their nearest settled neighbors!
Look narrowly at leather trousers of nomads: They are decorated by gold or copper elements which were sewn to a skin, but it after all not an ornament!!!
It is an element of the military equipment, allowing to lower the center of gravity and to increase a friction between a saddle and trousers.
If to believe to you, what in 3, 4th century BC at paleoeuropean there was all this equipment and there was an ability to operate a horse where this ability and equipment was gone later????
Be carefull while destroying "my assumptions", your tights might get teared...

Bronze age Greeks with horses...

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

17th century BC Mycenaeans with horses...

Click the image to open in full size.

5th century BC horse ridder with saddle and trousers.

Click the image to open in full size.

and this from 6th century B.C. Both saddle and trousers in place...

Click the image to open in full size.

Not to mention that horses had accesories that were much more advanced.

Click the image to open in full size.


Now, lets not forget that Palaeoeuropean (Indo-Europeans you meant probably) cultures had horses... Greeks, Indo-Aryans, Hittites, Germanics, Illyrians, Thracians you name it, all of them loved their horses.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 04:13 AM   #59
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“ἀλλ᾽ ἐπεὶ οὖν, φίλ᾽ ἑταῖρε, σεῦ ὕστερος εἶμ᾽ ὑπὸ γαῖαν,
οὔ σε πρὶν κτεριῶ, πρίν γ᾽ Ἕκτορος ἐνθάδ᾽ ἐνεῖκαι
τεύχεα καὶ κεφαλήν, μεγαθύμου σεῖο φονῆος.
=================================
But since, dear comrade, after thee I go
beneath the earth, I will not bury thee
Till here I bring thee Hector's head and arms,
The spoils of that proud prince who took thy life.”


Unless is though what sense in your transliteration?
In my transliterations of the most ancient Sumer protocuneiform writing always there is an ACCURATE sense and internal unity of sense of all grammatical design from the first offer to the last.
And your transliteration causes in me feeling of bewilderment and doubt that in general correctly understand an Ancient Greek glossary.
I see only the love letter of one pederast to another.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 04:23 AM   #60
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"Herodotus 5.95
ταῦτα δὲ Ἀλκαῖος ἐν μέλεϊ ποιήσας ἐπιτιθεῖ ἐς Μυτιλήνην, ἐξαγγελλόμενος τὸ ἑωυτοῦ πάθος Μελανίππῳ ἀνδρὶ ἑταίρῳ
Alcaeus "wrote"/composed a poem about this and sent it to Mytilene. In it he relates his own misfortune to his comrade Melanippus.
Do you want me to bring the whole Greek litterature and list the millions of uses of ἑταίρος?"

Millions your examples also it is not necessary for me to understand that Greeks were universal gays.
The set example only confirms my idea that the investigated word is meant by "the constant sexual partner".
Not the "soldier".
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