Question on the USSR - Historum

Loved Losses · December 30th, 2009, 08:15 PM

I was reading up on NATO, When something crossed my mind.

After WWII, European Nations had to protect themselves from the USSR, and this included Most of Germany teaming up with former enemies France and Britain. This helped create a stronger bond between Those Former Enemies.

If something had happened, such as the actual collapse of the USSR during the war (Germany actually takes Moscow and such, or something like that), the Russians still have to fight Germany, They still push to Berlin, yada yada yada, But when the war is over, they withdraw completely and go through another period of revolution. There is no USSR to threaten France, Britain, and Germany. Germany remains a single nation, Communism doesnt spread, and NATO is unnecassary.

So if anything close to that happened, then There would be no real force that brings Germany closer with France and Britain. This undermines everything from any NATO-style organization, to something like the EU. This could also mean that the Germans and Franco-British are still very... hateful toward each other. How does this affect history up to the present?

Loved Losses · December 30th, 2009, 09:22 PM

completely Ignored T.T

**oshron** · December 30th, 2009, 09:32 PM

well, 67 minutes isnt enough time for most people to respond; remember that most of the people on here are in a different time zone than you are

sylla1 · December 30th, 2009, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loved Losses

I was reading up on NATO, When something crossed my mind.

After WWII, European Nations had to protect themselves from the USSR, and this included Most of Germany teaming up with former enemies France and Britain. This helped create a stronger bond between Those Former Enemies.

If something had happened, such as the actual collapse of the USSR during the war (Germany actually takes Moscow and such, or something like that), the Russians still have to fight Germany, They still push to Berlin, yada yada yada, But when the war is over, they withdraw completely and go through another period of revolution. There is no USSR to threaten France, Britain, and Germany. Germany remains a single nation, Communism doesnt spread, and NATO is unnecassary.

So if anything close to that happened, then There would be no real force that brings Germany closer with France and Britain. This undermines everything from any NATO-style organization, to something like the EU. This could also mean that the Germans and Franco-British are still very... hateful toward each other. How does this affect history up to the present?

IMHO, you are trying to speculate over the potential consequences of a purely theoretical scenario; exponential speculation, if you like. It seems quite unlikely that may affect actual reality.
In any case, History (and especially European history) has constantly showed us how easily yesterday's enemy could become today's ally and then tomorrow's enemy again.
In fact, historically Prussia/Germany & Britain have been allies, and France & Britain enemies, much more often than the opposite case.

**oshron** · December 30th, 2009, 10:23 PM

hmm...yknow, youre right about the britain/germany thing. i actually NEVER noticed that before! hessians helping the brits in the revolution, wellsley and blucher teaming up to fight napoleon...

sylla1 · December 30th, 2009, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oshron

hmm...yknow, youre right about the britain/germany thing. i actually NEVER noticed that before! hessians helping the brits in the revolution, wellsley and blucher teaming up to fight napoleon...

Simple geography would be the main and most obvious explanation; the closer any two given nations are, the more likely they will eventually fight (and of course, the enemy of my enemy tend to be my frend).

Loved Losses · December 31st, 2009, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sylla1

IMHO, you are trying to speculate over the potential consequences of a purely theoretical scenario; exponential speculation, if you like. It seems quite unlikely that may affect actual reality.

well I assume thats why its called speculative history