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Old May 6th, 2016, 11:56 AM   #1

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Whats the closest the Axis powers could come to winning WWII without victory?


Lets say Germany had won at Stalingrad and El Alamein while Japan won resounding victories at Midway and Coral Sea. Would the allies have been unable to defeat the Axis powers under these circumstances? Or could Germany and Japan have done even better but still ultimately lost?
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Old May 6th, 2016, 12:19 PM   #2

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My two cents......

.....I think both Germany and Japan were fighting at such a disadvantage that a couple of more victories wouldn't have made much, if any, difference in the long run.
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Old May 6th, 2016, 12:24 PM   #3

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl XII View Post
Lets say Germany had won at Stalingrad and El Alamein while Japan won resounding victories at Midway and Coral Sea. Would the allies have been unable to defeat the Axis powers under these circumstances? Or could Germany and Japan have done even better but still ultimately lost?
While victories in these battles might delay their defeat, it wouldn't alter the fundamental reasons for the Axis defeat, so they still would be defeated eventually.
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Old May 6th, 2016, 02:51 PM   #4

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I think had Japan won resounding victories at Midway and Coral Sea, there would
have been a lot of pressure on US leaders to go all out vs. Japan, and leave Europe
to its fate. So Japan would have been crushed faster, but Europe might have been
left with Soviet and/or German domination.
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Old May 6th, 2016, 11:56 PM   #5

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Had the Germans occupied Moscow at the first opportunity they might potentially have persuaded Russia to surrender or seek terms. Stalin had very nearly given up at that point as all he could see was the Soviet Union crumbling under German pressure. Likewise, Britain with a different leader might well have surrendered when Hitler offered terms in mid August 1940. This is the point you see - these things are often described from a national point of view but the reality is that they're more often decisions made by individuals, and not all decisions are wisely considered.
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Old May 7th, 2016, 12:00 AM   #6

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Likewise, Britain with a different leader might well have surrendered when Hitler offered terms in mid August 1940..
Hitler never offered Britain any terms, he merely threatened them to seek peace or else face complete destruction.
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Old May 7th, 2016, 07:29 AM   #7

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Menshevik View Post
My two cents......

.....I think both Germany and Japan were fighting at such a disadvantage that a couple of more victories wouldn't have made much, if any, difference in the long run.
Disadvantage is an understatement. If you believe the huge effects that Radar and Code-breaking had against the Axis, then you would believe that they were fighting blind and doomed from the start.
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Old May 7th, 2016, 07:59 AM   #8
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Also remember that starting August 1945 the Axis would have been bombarded into submission with nuclear weapons.
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Old May 7th, 2016, 08:22 AM   #9

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Germany's only true hope of winning was in 1940. Before the US entered the war, and before he attacked Stalin. He needed to defeat Churchill/UK, and then figure out a strategy to defeat Stalin, and keep the USA quiet.

He messed up big time in 1940, and once the UK was intact, the Japanese were stalled in China, and he invaded the USSR and declared war against the USA, then he had three huge industrial powers against him, lol. He ****ed himself up.
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Old May 7th, 2016, 01:57 PM   #10
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Also remember that starting August 1945 the Axis would have been bombarded into submission with nuclear weapons.
Nuclear weapons would never have been used in Europe. Why destroy the thing you're trying to liberate?

The Japanese never stood a chance; the US would never stop until they had achieved total victory.

If Germany had gone all out and taken Moscow, capturing or killing Stalin, all the fight would have gone out of them. The prospect of no second front in Europe could have persuaded the US to concentrate on defeating Japan; by the time that had been done, Germany would have made Europe virtually impregnable. Probably an uneasy ceasefire would exist between Britain, the US and Germany.

After several years of economic hardship, and no chance of achieving victory, the British people may have replaced the bullish Churchill with a government more amenable to trade with Nazi mainland-Europe.
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