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Old January 6th, 2017, 12:33 PM   #21

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You said mild climate and -20 in the same sentence.
i did not mean that. read thoroughly.

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I think we found the problem right there. To Russians -20 is mild.
summer temperature is +20C or higher in Russia.


and why don't you research the subject instead of guessing?
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Old January 6th, 2017, 12:38 PM   #22

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to everyone else on the planet -20 is ungodly certain death on ice planet zero.
there ain't no such temperatures when there's summer or fall in russia.

how can you state something without proper research in advance???
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Old January 6th, 2017, 12:38 PM   #23
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In the Winter of 1941-2 everyone suffered, including the Soviets who might have had a little bit more warm clothes but less ammo or food. Its not like Germans didn't think about winter, but road conditions were much worse then they'd originally planned and their logistics supply train was terribly impeded. Ammo and fuel is always priority, and that was what they pushed east because boots werent going to break the sieges of Leningrad and Moscow, which were sooooooo close to falling that early winter it really came down to the Soviets being a bit luckier. If every German got severe frostbite it so would have been worth it for the psychological victories of taking those two cities.

Last edited by aggienation; January 6th, 2017 at 12:42 PM.
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Old January 6th, 2017, 12:39 PM   #24

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i did not mean that. read thoroughly.



summer temperature is +20C or higher in Russia.


and why don't you research the subject instead of guessing?
I think you missed the humor in the email.

Russian winters are substantially colder than winters in Western Europe yes? Not only were the Germans not prepared for winter fighting, they weren't prepared for Russian temperatures.

Heat studies of RUssian cold weather gear vs. german cold weather gear reflect that. Russian gear retained subtantially higher percentages of heat, especially about the face and feet (as has been noted already). Effectively Russian gear is just superior in this aspect.

Not to mention equipment-different oils, construction etc. Russians were more ready for winter fighting and the Germans weren't, even in the best of times.
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Old January 6th, 2017, 12:45 PM   #25

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I think you missed the humor in the email.
completely.

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Russian winters are substantially colder than winters in Western Europe yes?
the WWII - a winter war? Kursk battle took place in summer, btw.
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Old January 6th, 2017, 12:50 PM   #26
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completel

the WWII - a winter war? Kursk battle took place in summer, btw.
Kursk was in '43. 2 years after the war started. In the meantime two winters occurred, in which German soldiers operating near Leningrad and Moscow were exposed to temps they were not used to.

Last edited by aggienation; January 6th, 2017 at 12:52 PM.
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Old January 6th, 2017, 12:51 PM   #27

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completely.



the WWII - a winter war? Kursk battle took place in summer, btw.
Wait, the winter [the "General Winter"] was a factor, but the Soviets kicked a lot of Nazi and Fascist asses during worm seasons as well ...

This should be kept in mind.
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Old January 6th, 2017, 12:55 PM   #28
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the WWII - a winter war? Kursk battle took place in summer, btw.
I am quite sure, that nobody here does think, it is always winter in Russia. But the Germans were unprepared during the beginning of the first winter and not all troops did get winter clothing "so early" in november.
As mentioned as well German vehicles were not prepared for a Russian winter, lubricants, engine coolants, fuel, allthis had to work permanently even at -20 or less. And of course don't forget, that the many divvision relied on horse power. A lot of horse races can't stand such low temperatures.
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Old January 6th, 2017, 01:11 PM   #29

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German soldiers operating near Leningrad and Moscow were exposed to temps they were not used to.
and who were? Russians are polar bears or what?
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Old January 6th, 2017, 01:13 PM   #30

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It is not just wimter that gets you in Russia. Due to Russia being very continental, you get problems year round. The summers can get very hot, the earth is dry, vehicles on bad roads create a lor of dust. Autumn brings heavy rainfal and lots of mud. Winter brings cold, in '41 it was so bad the gas froze in German tanks. Crews brought straw in them to isolate them better, which atracted rats, who bit through the lines and wires. In spring the snow melts and you have lots of mud again. This means you can't pull of a good Blitzgrieg before the fields dry in spring and after the rain starts in autumn until the ground is frozen again and before thw frost goes away and softens the ground. The winter window can be closed by extreme cold too, leaving summer the only period you can fight truly effectively.
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