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Old January 6th, 2017, 09:46 PM   #1
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WWII only war even modern leftists/Anarchists/Pacifists/Draft Dodgers wiling to fight


This is a big thing I notice thats unique about World War II. Its that its the one war that people are universally willing to support even if they personally oppose the war or are members of a faction that is traditionally anti-military and cynical of the state.

I remember for example in a manga forum, some liberals who were anti-draft (believing that since military exists, they shouldn't have to serve) were all stating if they lived during World War II, they would sign up to enlist in an instant to fight Adolf Hitler.

Indeed in my local Quaker chapel, even members were saying they'd give up their pacifistic vows and join an infantry unit to fight the Japanese in the battlefields of the pacific because the evil Japs needed to be stopped during a discussion about Pearl Harbor in last years anniversary (which is a big deal in my state Hawaii).

I remember my relatives from France and Germany were saying they'd definitely help in the local Resistance or even desert to join the American army if they were living during the time. Despite having a cynical view of the world and even loathing militarism and the state the West has become. Because they truly believed Hitler was the greatest evil who needed to be stopped.

Whats your experiences? Have you notice even cynical groups such anti-Americans, anarcho-capitalists, and other subcultures so cynical of government and flatout anti-war are willing to make a huge exception for World War II? What is your personal opinion on this?

Even Obama and Clinton (both hated by conservatives for cutting funding on military and not being as internationalist and quick to enter war as earlier conservative presidents) all stated in personal writings and speeches about how they'd quickly declare war on Germany and Japan even before they started their invasions because they needed to be stopped.
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Old January 10th, 2017, 01:57 PM   #2

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WWII only war even modern leftists/Anarchists/Pacifists/Draft Dodgers wiling to fight


Well it took a 'sneak' attack & a declaration of war to get the US involved. I guess until then the obvious wars of aggression by both Japanese & Germans were ok?

FDR liked a close shave. His lack of resolve to take any political risk could have sunk the UK. And his oil & steel embargo, while a good move, should have had a 'what if strategic' view to it. As in, well if they don't back out of China, will they go to war over it? Pretty simple, but that was lost on him & State.

And there was a draft, so not everyone was running to sign up for what is now viewed as The Good War.


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Old January 10th, 2017, 06:52 PM   #3
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All their opinions are based on the assumption that they would have known that Hitler would embark on a program of extermination and permanent expansion. But much would as a matter of reality been unknown at the time.

Also, many are assuming themselves to be very courageous. In many cases, that's simply not true.
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Old January 10th, 2017, 07:45 PM   #4

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Originally Posted by Wrangler29 View Post
This is a big thing I notice thats unique about World War II. Its that its the one war that people are universally willing to support even if they personally oppose the war or are members of a faction that is traditionally anti-military and cynical of the state.

I remember for example in a manga forum, some liberals who were anti-draft (believing that since military exists, they shouldn't have to serve) were all stating if they lived during World War II, they would sign up to enlist in an instant to fight Adolf Hitler.

Indeed in my local Quaker chapel, even members were saying they'd give up their pacifistic vows and join an infantry unit to fight the Japanese in the battlefields of the pacific because the evil Japs needed to be stopped during a discussion about Pearl Harbor in last years anniversary (which is a big deal in my state Hawaii).

I remember my relatives from France and Germany were saying they'd definitely help in the local Resistance or even desert to join the American army if they were living during the time. Despite having a cynical view of the world and even loathing militarism and the state the West has become. Because they truly believed Hitler was the greatest evil who needed to be stopped.

Whats your experiences? Have you notice even cynical groups such anti-Americans, anarcho-capitalists, and other subcultures so cynical of government and flatout anti-war are willing to make a huge exception for World War II? What is your personal opinion on this?

Even Obama and Clinton (both hated by conservatives for cutting funding on military and not being as internationalist and quick to enter war as earlier conservative presidents) all stated in personal writings and speeches about how they'd quickly declare war on Germany and Japan even before they started their invasions because they needed to be stopped.
Its all well and good saying these things with hindsight and from the safety and comfort of several decades away.

Your German relatives may very well have found themselves in field grey serving their country, as millions of Germans did.

Clinton and Obama may well have thought differently in 1939 without being able to look it a crystal ball. After all, what had they done to warrant a declaration of war up to that point.
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Old January 10th, 2017, 08:03 PM   #5

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Originally Posted by Wrangler29 View Post
Even Obama and Clinton (both hated by conservatives for cutting funding on military and not being as internationalist and quick to enter war as earlier conservative presidents) all stated in personal writings and speeches about how they'd quickly declare war on Germany and Japan even before they started their invasions because they needed to be stopped.
Let's keep contemporary politics out of this, under any guise.
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Old January 10th, 2017, 08:36 PM   #6
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In WWII you had Americans of the right, who were nationalists, and of the left, who supportered the Soviet Union, both working for the greater good of beating the national socialist German fascists who had teamed up with the Japnaese woukd had attackrd us. Nobody besides those in the state dept and other institutions of govt were thinking of balance of power and spheres of indluence.

This common enemy is why the unions initially went along with the harsh economic period and mobilization of our economy, why Hollywood (which even back then was very left wing) went along with it, academia too.

And its the same reasons those same institutions didn't support the Cold War, because then the US govt was directing war against the fellow travellers of many in the American left.
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Old January 10th, 2017, 08:36 PM   #7
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There was fair bit of alarm of Hitler and the Nazis on the left well before WW2, and certainly the anarchists would have be solidly opposed, most left wingers were worried and opposed to the rise of Nazi Germany, with a fair belief that the it would have to be opposed by force. There were some gymnastic position changes for those who aligned themselves with Moscow.

Courage is not particularly aligned with political belief.
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Old January 10th, 2017, 09:02 PM   #8

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Originally Posted by aggienation View Post
In WWII you had Americans of the right, who were nationalists, and of the left, who supportered the Soviet Union, both working for the greater good of beating the national socialist German fascists who had teamed up with the Japnaese woukd had attackrd us. Nobody besides those in the state dept and other institutions of govt were thinking of balance of power and spheres of indluence.

This common enemy is why the unions initially went along with the harsh economic period and mobilization of our economy, why Hollywood (which even back then was very left wing) went along with it, academia too.

And its the same reasons those same institutions didn't support the Cold War, because then the US govt was directing war against the fellow travellers of many in the American left.
Those on the left, both in the US and UK, were against the war rigt up until Germany invaded the SU, then suddenly they became great supporters. So these were not people who were concerned about the threat of Germany but were more concerned about the danger to the SU than they were their own countries.
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Old January 10th, 2017, 09:09 PM   #9
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Those on the left, both in the US and UK, were against the war rigt up until Germany invaded the SU, then suddenly they became great supporters. So these were not people who were concerned about the threat of Germany but were more concerned about the danger to the SU than they were their own countries.
Left wingers had been fired up since the Nazis rigged the '34 election amd removed the promise that the Weimar govt woukd have been controlled by a colation of Socialists and Communists. Then after that there was the Spanish Civil Way, which to many was Fascist vs. Communist, with international units like the Abraham Lincoln Brigade being full of American communists. The rise of Hitler and the entirety of the European theater of WWII really were just a fight between conflicting types of left wing ideologies, national socialism vs. communism, with a whole lot of people getting caught in the cross fire.
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Old January 10th, 2017, 09:29 PM   #10

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Originally Posted by aggienation View Post
Left wingers had been fired up since the Nazis rigged the '34 election amd removed the promise that the Weimar govt woukd have been controlled by a colation of Socialists and Communists. Then after that there was the Spanish Civil Way, which to many was Fascist vs. Communist, with international units like the Abraham Lincoln Brigade being full of American communists. The rise of Hitler and the entirety of the European theater of WWII really were just a fight between conflicting types of left wing ideologies, national socialism vs. communism, with a whole lot of people getting caught in the cross fire.
But the point still stands that they were against war between Sept 39 and June 41. Their own nations came second to the SU.
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