Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > Themes in History > War and Military History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

War and Military History War and Military History Forum - Warfare, Tactics, and Military Technology over the centuries


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old November 9th, 2012, 09:56 AM   #81

Scaeva's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,430

Quote:
Originally Posted by hisstoryin View Post
Che still has a pretty visible legacy is Latin America. Lots of people idolize him. His historical impact is debatable but the man is iconic, that's a fact.

Moreover, I'd trade Batista for Castro and Che any day of the week.
But would you trade Stephen Harper and the Constitutional Monarchy for Che Guevara and a totalitarian Marxist state?

I'd wager the vast majority of people in the West would not trade their democratic forms of government for an oppressive totalitarian regime that does not respect basic human rights, including most of the teenagers and university students that own a Che t-shirt. The real man was quite different than the romanticized counter-culture icon that lives on in modern pop culture.
Scaeva is offline  
Remove Ads
Old November 18th, 2012, 06:16 PM   #82

Ashiusx's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Mar 2012
From: New York City
Posts: 579
Blog Entries: 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthera tigris altaica View Post
I don't know, this quote from his own mind kind of nicely sums him up:

"To send men to the firing squad, judicial proof is unnecessary...These procedures are an archaic bourgeois detail. This is a revolution! And a revolutionary must become a cold killing machine motivated by pure hate. We must create the pedagogy of the The Wall! " --Ernesto 'Che' Guevara


Private ownership, free elections, religious tolerance, respecting national/international law and respect for the individual and their rights didn't fit into his personal credo. That is all so bourgeois fit only for the firing squad manned by the proletariat. Frightful stuff if you happened to disagree with any minor detail.
That quote is disputed. It is likely he never said that. I understand why everyone wants demonize Che since what he represents is so dangerous. ''Revolution''


Che Guevara - Wikiquote
I can't find nothing in his writings saying he was opposed to those. What Che trying to say instead individualism for one's own self interests must go away and for more an altruistic one.

Last edited by Ashiusx; November 18th, 2012 at 07:20 PM.
Ashiusx is offline  
Old November 18th, 2012, 09:28 PM   #83
Archivist
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 179

If your belief of what Che Guevara is uses as base any movie whatsoever (with the exception of documentaries) then you are certainly a shallow person...

I am a social democrat and I recognize that Che Guevara is no hero... He is just an icon for cocktail socialists...
coldshot is offline  
Old November 19th, 2012, 03:08 AM   #84

Ashiusx's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Mar 2012
From: New York City
Posts: 579
Blog Entries: 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by coldshot View Post
If your belief of what Che Guevara is uses as base any movie whatsoever (with the exception of documentaries) then you are certainly a shallow person...

I am a social democrat and I recognize that Che Guevara is no hero... He is just an icon for cocktail socialists...
There are documentaries that praise him. What ones think of Che is subjective.
Ashiusx is offline  
Old November 19th, 2012, 11:45 AM   #85
Archivist
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 179

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashiusx View Post
There are documentaries that praise him. What ones think of Che is subjective.
If you believe Guevara is a hero because of such documentaries, so be it, but if you base it on narrative movies then you are very gullible...
coldshot is offline  
Old November 19th, 2012, 11:47 AM   #86
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by DIVUS IVLIVS View Post
One should in my opinion note that there is much to be admired about his ability, his character, and certain parts of his aims, or at least the motivations behind them.

Less certain is what he actually achieved. It has to be admitted even by his admirers that he was something of a failure as an administrator, and a good part of his legacy is not exactly what one would call positive.

He is fascinating though, that is undeniable.

I wouldn't be so quick to say that he doesn't have his supporters in the US. There are just as many people in America who love as who loathe. Both of these are likely outnumbered however by those to whom he is just "that dude on the t-shirt".

That's excellent analysis. Imo..depends on your contextual viewpoint and in particular the era in which you were first exposed to him.
Dragonborn is offline  
Old November 19th, 2012, 02:07 PM   #87

Panthera tigris altaica's Avatar
In latrine Rex
 
Joined: Aug 2011
From: Texas
Posts: 5,641
Blog Entries: 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashiusx View Post
That quote is disputed. It is likely he never said that. I understand why everyone wants demonize Che since what he represents is so dangerous. ''Revolution''
I guess in fairness to his supporters and admirers, it would be nice if there was some way to source his comments, whether in writing or speeches. As it is, you must admit, as anti-capitalists as he was, his image being turned into a product for sale is highly ironic.
Panthera tigris altaica is offline  
Reply

  Historum > Themes in History > War and Military History

Tags
che, guevara


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Che Guevara-hero or villain? kilvil American History 18 February 25th, 2009 04:16 PM
Reflections on Castro and Guevara RonPrice American History 0 January 2nd, 2009 11:40 PM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.