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Old October 13th, 2017, 01:41 PM   #11

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Don't forget the Sapphire Cup ... A cup used by all the Kings of Italy since the Langobardic monarchs ... I hope Napoleon washed it before of drinking ...

Jokes a part, Napoleon was out of context. He intended the domain over Europe like an ancient Emperor [in 19th century !?!]. His personal world inside wasn't in agreement with the real world outside.
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Old October 13th, 2017, 02:37 PM   #12

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You may like to get hold of a copy of "Napoleon and Love", a 1974 ITV series that portrayed Nappies personal life for some ideas. A girlfriend of mine got her first speaking part in the series and I read for her when she practiced her lines so I knew the storylines pretty well and its full of fun (and accurate) detail. Bitch dumped me as soon as she was 5 minutes famous though.

Amazon have it on DVD https://www.amazon.com/NAPOLEON-LOVE.../dp/B004EP433M

Last edited by Ancientgeezer; October 13th, 2017 at 02:42 PM.
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Old October 13th, 2017, 02:44 PM   #13

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancientgeezer View Post
You may like to get hold of a copy of "Napoleon and Love", a 1974 ITV series that portrayed Nappies personal life for some ideas. A girlfriend of mine got her first speaking part in the series and I read for her when she practiced hees so I knew the storylines pretty well and its full of fun (and accurate) detail. Bitch dumped me as soon as she was 5 minutes famous though.
Forgone conclusion there Ancientgeezer. I remember the series quite well, it was more to do with Josephine and Marie Waleska, with Napoleons indiscretions thrown in. I felt that it bordered on flights of fancy more
than historical accuracy.
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Old October 13th, 2017, 02:49 PM   #14

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I've been getting some great suggestions. Though to clarify I am trying to write a story about Napoleon and the entire Napoleonic period (within some limits I suppose). So this will necessarily be a character driven story with lots of battles and campaigns being fought, there will be an extreme amount of generals who will test their skills (with some dramatization of the campaigns to make them more suspenseful and exciting, while still factual). I will keep to the adage that war is a chess game, a game of cards and a fencing match in order to pull off the presentation of these campaigns. I will also extend that to the politics of the era which in itself will go into the other characters (such as Napoleon's family).

To sum it up it is essentially strategy and politics. When it comes to interpersonal relations that has more to do with how these characters think and act, in a way it is an easy chance to develop the characters off the battlefield. In this way there is potential for multiple arcs. So for example why does Murat betray Napoleon? Well of course Caroline plays a role in that and so the story necessarily has to take time to explain her character and give us a glimpse at these politics and family feuds so to speak.

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You may like to get hold of a copy of "Napoleon and Love", a 1974 ITV series that portrayed Nappies personal life for some ideas. A girlfriend of mine got her first speaking part in the series and I read for her when she practiced her lines so I knew the storylines pretty well and its full of fun (and accurate) detail. Bitch dumped me as soon as she was 5 minutes famous though.
I have heard of the series but have not seen it. From the clips that I have seen it does appear to me to have some bits of fiction, though I can't be sure since this area is not exactly my expertise.
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Old October 13th, 2017, 07:05 PM   #15

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I've been getting some great suggestions. Though to clarify I am trying to write a story about Napoleon and the entire Napoleonic period (within some limits I suppose).
So it's going to be like the TV series with Christian Clavier but with more battles?

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Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga View Post
To sum it up it is essentially strategy and politics. When it comes to interpersonal relations that has more to do with how these characters think and act, in a way it is an easy chance to develop the characters off the battlefield. In this way there is potential for multiple arcs. So for example why does Murat betray Napoleon? Well of course Caroline plays a role in that and so the story necessarily has to take time to explain her character and give us a glimpse at these politics and family feuds so to speak.
So, you're interested in the characters of the ladies and other family members only insofar as their actions have consequences for battles and grand politics? In this case, personally I'd be happy if you could leave them out completely as POV characters if that is possible. In war and international politics, women were objects, weren't they? Explaining Murat's actions by Caroline intriguing has been done to death anyway. So has the whole "Oh but I need an heir!" teary-eyed tragedy of Josephine.

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I have heard of the series but have not seen it. From the clips that I have seen it does appear to me to have some bits of fiction, though I can't be sure since this area is not exactly my expertise.
It has lots of fiction and exaggeration - it's a comedy after all. But most of it is based on historical anecdotes.
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Old October 14th, 2017, 12:22 AM   #16

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Spain should be mentioned But Napoleon spent only a few months there. Russia and Egypt should be in it. Egypt offers opportunity to see his cruel side at Jaffa.

Id start with him as a idealistic young man.
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Old October 14th, 2017, 11:32 AM   #17

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So it's going to be like the TV series with Christian Clavier but with more battles?
Maybe? I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. I figure it would be that but with more... everything.

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So, you're interested in the characters of the ladies and other family members only insofar as their actions have consequences for battles and grand politics? In this case, personally I'd be happy if you could leave them out completely as POV characters if that is possible. In war and international politics, women were objects, weren't they? Explaining Murat's actions by Caroline intriguing has been done to death anyway. So has the whole "Oh but I need an heir!" teary-eyed tragedy of Josephine.
They wouldn't be protagonists so much as they would be side characters relevant to specific arcs. Yes their main importance would be in so far as the political side of things are concerned and to add more to the characters who engaged in these sorts of things directly. So for instance Napoleon's relationship with his family probably says more about Napoleon in this case.

Personally I'm not much for tear jerking. Instead I would rather play it straight, say this is what happened, capitalize on it for its consequences, play up the intrigue and in your example probably indicate that Josephine has "lost the game" so to speak. Of course that could be subversive since the old gal probably has a few plays up her sleeves before she finally croaks.

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It has lots of fiction and exaggeration - it's a comedy after all. But most of it is based on historical anecdotes.
Then it might not be the best source of information, I'll try to watch it though, why not.

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Spain should be mentioned But Napoleon spent only a few months there. Russia and Egypt should be in it. Egypt offers opportunity to see his cruel side at Jaffa.

Id start with him as a idealistic young man.
The characterization of Napoleon will be a challenge indeed. Honestly I think that his major change will occur in the beginning and over time he will just delve into complexity where determining what kind of person he is would be extremely difficult. There are multiple elements to be thrown in there though, since Napoleon is not an easy man to describe.

Spain will be part of the story, as I see it Wellington has to be a major character and so his campaigns against Napoleon's generals ought to be covered.
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Old October 14th, 2017, 06:11 PM   #18

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga View Post
Maybe? I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. I figure it would be that but with more... everything.


They wouldn't be protagonists so much as they would be side characters relevant to specific arcs. Yes their main importance would be in so far as the political side of things are concerned and to add more to the characters who engaged in these sorts of things directly. So for instance Napoleon's relationship with his family probably says more about Napoleon in this case.

Personally I'm not much for tear jerking. Instead I would rather play it straight, say this is what happened, capitalize on it for its consequences, play up the intrigue and in your example probably indicate that Josephine has "lost the game" so to speak. Of course that could be subversive since the old gal probably has a few plays up her sleeves before she finally croaks.


Then it might not be the best source of information, I'll try to watch it though, why not.



The characterization of Napoleon will be a challenge indeed. Honestly I think that his major change will occur in the beginning and over time he will just delve into complexity where determining what kind of person he is would be extremely difficult. There are multiple elements to be thrown in there though, since Napoleon is not an easy man to describe.

Spain will be part of the story, as I see it Wellington has to be a major character and so his campaigns against Napoleon's generals ought to be covered.
I’d have Wellington as some kind of bogeyman. Napoleon hears of him, each marshal he sends to Spain gets beat, but Napoleon never takes the threat seriously. Until fate lets them meet. Trying to explore Wellington in detail is going add another level of detail to a busy plot. While Spain is inportant as a drain on Napoleons troops and resources. It’s quite seperate to his own campaigns. Little that happened there would affect his campaigns directly.
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Old October 15th, 2017, 01:17 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga View Post
I've been getting some great suggestions. Though to clarify I am trying to write a story about Napoleon and the entire Napoleonic period (within some limits I suppose). So this will necessarily be a character driven story with lots of battles and campaigns being fought, there will be an extreme amount of generals who will test their skills (with some dramatization of the campaigns to make them more suspenseful and exciting, while still factual). I will keep to the adage that war is a chess game, a game of cards and a fencing match in order to pull off the presentation of these campaigns. I will also extend that to the politics of the era which in itself will go into the other characters (such as Napoleon's family).

To sum it up it is essentially strategy and politics. When it comes to interpersonal relations that has more to do with how these characters think and act, in a way it is an easy chance to develop the characters off the battlefield. In this way there is potential for multiple arcs. So for example why does Murat betray Napoleon? Well of course Caroline plays a role in that and so the story necessarily has to take time to explain her character and give us a glimpse at these politics and family feuds so to speak.



I have heard of the series but have not seen it. From the clips that I have seen it does appear to me to have some bits of fiction, though I can't be sure since this area is not exactly my expertise.

Personally I would choose to focus either on the the personalities OR on the battles/campaigns. There is so much in Napoleon's life that trying to include both in one novel means that either it's going to be over a thousand pages long or that you will have to skip significant chunks.

Writing resource sites are a great help and there's plenty of free, friendly advice out there. Good luck whatever you decide to do.
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Old October 15th, 2017, 01:28 AM   #20

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Just to explain and elaborate on what I meant above: I was talking about POV characters (and I hope I'm using the correct term here), i.e., characters whose thoughts and motives are laid open to the reader.
If you focus mostly on the battlefield action you most likely will not have the time to explore the relations between the characters outside of war. Using Murat as an example: There are plenty of reasons why Murat "commited treason" and left Napoleon, but that gradual souring of relations would, I assume, happen "off-screen" in your case (as it does even in many history books). All of a sudden (not really, but in that narrative), Murat turns coat, and to explain that, we need an explanation (Caroline). Now, that's all good and well - as long as we do not get to see things from Caroline's point of view. Because that would most likely make her come across as a very two-dimensional character. That was my fear, after having read a (german) book about the Bonaparte family that I wanted to kick around the room every ten pages .

Regarding Wellington: It's a nice idea but I guess that depends a bit on your intended audience. I assume most Brits and possibly also US Americans would love it. But I guess his fame is limited. Just saying: while I knew quite a bit about Napoleon even before I actually started reading up on him, I don't think I had ever come across the name of Wellington before (or Blücher, for that matter). Probably been mentioned once in 8th grade, and immediately forgotten.
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