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Old October 16th, 2017, 05:00 PM   #41

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It all depends on what you are planning to write. A novel from Napoleon's perspective, a script, a historical book?

Really like the idea though. It has been a serious disappointment that Kubrick never made his film. Though then again it would probably need a ten season series to cover Napoleon fully.
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Old October 16th, 2017, 05:08 PM   #42

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Also on what level do you believe you are familiar with the entire Napoleonic period from a scale from 1 to 10. Then I know to what extent it is worth the effort to write entire paragraphs in the future or to refrain from that because you already know the essential information I am going to tell. I know you are well familiar with military affairs so I know I dont have to add much there.
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Old October 16th, 2017, 05:35 PM   #43

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PS. @ josepha

I would love following your link , but it seems broken .
revolution interest me , it's a season of renewal of people and idea when strong characters can shine , morality cannot then be judged by standards of more sedate times
after some reflection , maybe I need to reassess my superficial impression of Josephine

First of all: sorry for the broken link. Now I caused precisely what I was trying to avoid, this thread turning to the topic of Josephine. I'll try again (fingers crossed): Pauline Bonaparte: an overrated "idol"?
I've actually written a bit about Josephine and Barras there and also given a link to the website of author Sandra Gulland who wrote three lengthy novels about Josephine and did quite some research on the way. I'm not a big fan of Josephine myself, but the story may be a little more complicated than "Josephine being a courtesan in order to survive".

I think there's always a problem with the "sidekicks" of Napoleon's story - because next to Napoleon, everybody is merely a sidekick, so we tend to see their lives only in relation to Napoleon. But of course they actually have their own stories. Did you know that Rose (Josephine's real name), only twenty years old, fought her first husband in court - a fight in which dear Alexandre was about as successful as he would be before Mayence? Josephine hardly needed the revolution to insist on her rights.

Now, just to maybe make this digression a little useful for Lord Oda Nobunaga: Maybe Napoleon's relationship with Josephine can also be seen in context with "the clan". I think Napoleon, at the beginning, in some way tried to rebel against the family - and Josephine offered him that possibility. Josephine had her own "clan", a social network of friends, that Napoleon, by marrying her, became part of. He now depended less on the help of his family - he could use Josephine's network instead. That also explains to some degree the Bonapartes' hatred towards her - she was stealing Napoleon away from their influence.
Napoleon often used his Beauharnais relations to threaten the Bonapartes. For a while, I think his brothers were trying to rein him in. In 1804/1805, when Napoleon wants Joseph to become King of (Northern) Italy, he has lengthy discussions with Roederer in which the Beauharnais are mentioned several times. And when Joseph, after having originally agreed to let himself be crowned, in the end refuses because he understands that he will not be allowed to actually rule, what does Napoleon do to make him comply? He threatens to give the title to Eugène Beauharnais (a 23-year-old cavalryman without the slightest political experience or ambition; this must qualify as one of the weirdest staff decisions ever). His brothers call his bluff - of course they do. And after having waited until after the coronation (which for some reason even got postponed for two days), probably still hoping for one of his brothers to cave in, Napoleon finally has no other option than to actually do it (Eugène apparently learns the news on June 1st, and if his letter to his sister is anything to go by, he's a little perplexed by it).
For some time now Napoleon clearly has the upper hand - see the interview he has with Miot de Melito about how Joseph has to behave in Naples. He can boss his brothers around, he is the true head of the family. But weirdly, the older Napoleon gets, the more he seems to fall back into the "fangs" of the clan, too. He now does not need Josephine and her network anymore, he can aspire for greater things. The last thing that Josephine really does for him: she in the background works for his second marriage with Marie Louise.
But when things go badly in 1814, who does Napoleon turn to: Joseph. The natural head of the family. In some way the clan does deserve his faith: they do return to his side during the Hundred Days, even those he had been fighting with.
And I think it's Andrew Roberts who pointed out that in his final will Napoleon actually lists some estates on Corsica that he wants to go to his son. The story goes full circle there.

@ NapoleonicNiklas: Would that novel be by author Shannon Selin (http://shannonselin.com/my-book/napoleon-in-america/)? I've come across her blog several times; some good stuff there.

Last edited by Josefa; October 16th, 2017 at 06:10 PM.
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Old October 16th, 2017, 08:09 PM   #44

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Originally Posted by PrinceofOrange View Post
It all depends on what you are planning to write. A novel from Napoleon's perspective, a script, a historical book?

Really like the idea though. It has been a serious disappointment that Kubrick never made his film. Though then again it would probably need a ten season series to cover Napoleon fully.
I think the main 'POV' perspectives should cover figures like Napoleon, Caulaincourt, Josephine (for France), Alexander, Kutuzov, Barclay (for Russia, and including Grand Duchess Catherine as well), Wellington, Pitt, Castlereagh (for Britain), Metternich, Radetzky (for Austria), Frederick William, Louise, Blucher, and Scharnhorst for Prussia. Even if one doesn't include all of these suggestions, at least 2 POVs from each of the 5 major 'player' nations should do.

Many of the events you mentioned should be included, though some, like the actual tactical fighting at Jena-Auerstadt, should be shown only very briefly, as some things were foregone conclusions in many regards (to be clear, I think Napoleon's strategic/operational planning should be covered fairly, as that was the whole crux for how 1806 played out anyway, as well as the hydra command structure and outdated methods of the Prussian army). Battles are expensive anyway (assuming this could ever go into screen form), so perhaps like 1 battle every season or 2. I'm thinking stuff like Arcole, Marengo, Austerlitz, Eylau, Aspern (maybe a short bit for Wagram), Salamanca, Borodino, Bautzen, Dresden, Kulm (not as large or seemingly significant, Leipzig, 1814 (though taken as a whole and not focused on individual battles too much), and Waterloo should just about do it for 10 seasons. Some battles, such as Austerlitz and Leipzig especially, should perhaps be given the same depth that LOTR gave to battles such as Helm's Deep or Minas Tirith.

Of course, far more than just battles and purely military matters will need to be covered, such as various intrigues, diplomacy, social affairs, and especially family relations among the Bonaparte's and Romanov's. Vienna alone should receive at least a few episode's worth in like the 9th or 10th season or so.
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Old October 16th, 2017, 08:33 PM   #45

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.
@ PriceofOrange , one's head spin before such a list .
maybe there is the usual way out
the formative years , childhood to the revolution
the contending years , from Bastille day to his self coronation
the rise and fall of the empire , from Austerlitz to St Helena

@ Napoleonicklas , Yes I read the book review , I was simply suggesting a twist on the story
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Old October 16th, 2017, 08:47 PM   #46

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@ Josepha , I quite like the "war of the clans" angle , even if on the whole I discount most of it
all indication are than Napoleon was genuinely quite fond of the Beauharnais children
while his relation with his brothers and sisters was quite tense sometimes.

using Josephine networks for his own use is spot on , but it was a two way process ,
Barras and others were also using him as one of other military aces up their sleeve
it was no mere accident if he was tasked with re-establishing order in Paris with artillery grapeshot
that certainly made his political future a great amount of good
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Old October 16th, 2017, 10:44 PM   #47

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.
all indication are than Napoleon was genuinely quite fond of the Beauharnais children
Possibly. But does that mean Napoleon would not use them as a tool if he felt like it?
I'm not sure Napoleon's personal attitude towards people always reflects in the way he treated them. Caroline and Murat did receive a throne, Lucien was even offered one despite being officially in disgrace. Eugène - not really belonging to the family - would never become more than a subordinate governor with a pretty title. (Ironically, he in the end was the only one who was at least partially accepted among the sovereigns after Napoleon's fall.)
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Old October 17th, 2017, 04:43 AM   #48

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I am probably biased since I live in the Balkans, but it wouldn't be bad to include something from there, the Napoleonic Wars had a great impact there. French Empire established autonomous Illyrian Provinces there, and helped to revive Slovene nationalism to an extent. Invasion of Russia was one of the main factors that led to the failure of the First Serbian Uprising, and speaking of the Ottoman Empire, Napoleon's invasion of Egypt contributed significantly to the failure of Selim III's Nizam reforms etc.
If the last part of the story involved Marmont and the surrender of Paris in 1814, then a bit of the disappointment of Marmont, a hero at Marengo, in reaction to the assignment as the governor of the Illyrian provinces would be appropriate.
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Old October 17th, 2017, 06:10 AM   #49

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Originally Posted by nuclearguy165 View Post
I think the main 'POV' perspectives should cover figures like Napoleon, Caulaincourt, Josephine (for France), Alexander, Kutuzov, Barclay (for Russia, and including Grand Duchess Catherine as well), Wellington, Pitt, Castlereagh (for Britain), Metternich, Radetzky (for Austria), Frederick William, Louise, Blucher, and Scharnhorst for Prussia. Even if one doesn't include all of these suggestions, at least 2 POVs from each of the 5 major 'player' nations should do.

Many of the events you mentioned should be included, though some, like the actual tactical fighting at Jena-Auerstadt, should be shown only very briefly, as some things were foregone conclusions in many regards (to be clear, I think Napoleon's strategic/operational planning should be covered fairly, as that was the whole crux for how 1806 played out anyway, as well as the hydra command structure and outdated methods of the Prussian army). Battles are expensive anyway (assuming this could ever go into screen form), so perhaps like 1 battle every season or 2. I'm thinking stuff like Arcole, Marengo, Austerlitz, Eylau, Aspern (maybe a short bit for Wagram), Salamanca, Borodino, Bautzen, Dresden, Kulm (not as large or seemingly significant, Leipzig, 1814 (though taken as a whole and not focused on individual battles too much), and Waterloo should just about do it for 10 seasons. Some battles, such as Austerlitz and Leipzig especially, should perhaps be given the same depth that LOTR gave to battles such as Helm's Deep or Minas Tirith.

Of course, far more than just battles and purely military matters will need to be covered, such as various intrigues, diplomacy, social affairs, and especially family relations among the Bonaparte's and Romanov's. Vienna alone should receive at least a few episode's worth in like the 9th or 10th season or so.
Indeed you are right Nuclear. Maybe I have been somewhat overzealous. In any case I very much like your idea of having different character perspectives. Though I would include more than just a limited amount per nation. Maybe it could be something like we have seen in the Band of Brothers perspective. Each episode from a different perspective. So perhaps something like this:

Season 1:

Episode 1: The Boy - Madame Mere
His mother sees her child growing up. Does have a good overview on his flaws and talents. Shows Napoleon how he truly was as a child.
Episode 2: Becoming an officer - Bellecour (Napoleon's friend at Brienne)
Bellecour can shine a somewhat neutral light on Napoleon's time in the military academy. He can point out his loneliness, but also how he excelled in some of the most difficult classes.
Episode 3: The Corsican identity- Louis Bonaparte
As a child himself Louis can show us what the family meant for Napoleon during the time his father passed away. How Napoleon took care of him and the family with his army paycheck.
Episode 4: The Revolution and the break with Corsica - Paoli
Paoli can show us the other side of the coin on how Napoleon and the Buonaparte's in general reacted towards the Revolution and its impact of Corsica. We can see how Paoli saw it only just that the Buonaparte's were driven from the island and perhaps can also show some light on some of Napoleon's failed interventions.
Episode 5: Marseille - Desiree Clary
Desiree can give us her view on Napoleon the romantic, the dreamer and the man of action. She can perhaps offer a deeper insight in Napoleon's traumatic forceful departure from Corsica and how Napoleon behaved towards his first love
Episode 6: Toulon - Junot
As a young friend of Napoleon's since the Revolution and a low ranking officer Junot might shine some light on how Napoleon was perceived by his men and can show us his detailed planning around the capture of Toulon.
Episode 7: Paris - Barras
Barras can show us how Napoleon got into contact with his faction after the reign of terror. He can tell us about Napoleon's imprisonment and introduce us to the Josephine-Napoleon relationship.
Episode 8: 13 Vendemiaire - Murat
Murat's role during the 13 Vendemiaire was vital in exploiting the use of the cannons. Murat can introduce us to the Napoleon-Murat partnership and Napoleon's dealing with the Royalist insurrection.
Episode 9: The married hero - Hortense
As a child of Josephine de Beauharnais, Hortense can show us more about the relationship between Josephine and Napoleon, their marriage and his time as godfather of the children
Episode 10: On to glory! - Massena
Massena can introduce us to Napoleon assuming command of the army of Italy. Its preperations and how he was initially perceived, but by sheer force of character turned the army around. The season ends with the army starting their march into Northern Italy.

Season 2:

Episode 1: Against all odds - Beaulieu
We see the French Revolutionary Army marching into Italy under the command of General Bonaparte. Beaulieu, as commander of the Habsburg forces, can show us light on the astonishing speed by which Napoleon knocked out Piedmont and forced the Austrians all the way passed Milan. We could see Lodi play out here as well in some extent.
Episode 2: King in all but name - Marmont
As Napoleon's aide-de-camp, Marmont is able to shed light on Napoleon the administrator and early reformer. How he challenged decissions by the Directory, orchestrated propaganda and organized the war effort whilst at the same time stamping new nations out of the ground. Also he could tell us some more about Napoleon's relationship with Josephine. How Napoleon was held ignorant for a long time about his wife's affairs.
Episode 3: Trapped - Alvinczi
As one of the few relatively succesful commanders during the four relieve attempts at Mantua during the Italian campaign, Alvinczi can show us what Napoleon faced during those crucial weeks when things could have gone both ways. He can show us light on Napoleon's brilliant use of operations and internal lines. Perhaps this episode could also contain either Rivoli or Arcole.
Episode 4: Spoils of war - Pius VI
He can show us light on Napoleon's troublesome attitude towards the Directory. Their differences on how to mob up the spoils of war left behind by the 1796-97 campaign. Napoleon's diplomatic approaches towards the Church and truce at Leoben.
Episode 5: The Hero of Italy - Josephine
Instead of giving her an episode on romance, it might actually be better to use Josephine's perspective on Napoleon's dealing with his image at home and how it influenced his diplomacy abroad. She can show us light on his support among Parisian bourgeoisie to hostility from royalist and jacobin sentiments. The episode could end with the treaty of Campo-Formio and Napoleon returnign triumphant.
Episode 6: The Orient - Talleyrand
This episode could focus on Napoleon's preperations and plotting with the Directory to further his carreer in the Orient. Talleyrand can show us more light on Napoleon the organizer and the visionary when it comes to the sciences and exploration, but also the unrealistic dreamer. The episode might end with Napoleon occupying Malta.
Episode 7: Forty centuries look down upon you - Reynier
As important player during the battle of the Pyramids, Reynier can offer us some nice details about the battle and on the conquest of Egypt in general.
Episode 8: The Pharaoh - Monge
As a scientist during the expedition, Monge can show us how Napoleon involved himself in the scientific discoveries, but also about some civilian elements of that campaign. Such as the uprising in Cairo and Napoleon the administrator.
Episode 9: The Levant - Nelson
As it was Nelson's task to destroy the French fleet and to make sure Napoleon was completely cut off he can show us some of the more disastrous elements of the campaign such as the battle of the Nile, Jaffa and the failure at Acre. The episode might end with all that bad luck overcoming Napoleon, he still manages to escape the British blockade and make it back to France.
Episode 10: Brumaire - Lucien Bonaparte
Since Lucien was one of the lucky elements of Napoleon at Brumaire and his conflicting attitude towards his brother he could provide us with an objective view towards the events playing out at Brumaire and Napoleon's rise to First Consul. He can give a detailed view on how the event played out and the roles played by various characters such as himself, Napoleon, Murat, Roger-Ducos, Sieyes, Fouché and Talleyrand. The episode might end with something like Napoleon entering the Tuileries.

I am planning to continue this later when I have the time if you are interested. I know now how long it takes to write a script. This small piece alone took me some time already .
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Old October 17th, 2017, 06:16 AM   #50

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Originally Posted by PrinceofOrange View Post
Indeed you are right Nuclear. Maybe I have been somewhat overzealous. In any case I very much like your idea of having different character perspectives. Though I would include more than just a limited amount per nation. Maybe it could be something like we have seen in the Band of Brothers perspective. Each episode from a different perspective. So perhaps something like this:

Season 1:

Episode 1: The Boy - Madame Mere
His mother sees her child growing up. Does have a good overview on his flaws and talents. Shows Napoleon how he truly was as a child.
Episode 2: Becoming an officer - Bellecour (Napoleon's friend at Brienne)
Bellecour can shine a somewhat neutral light on Napoleon's time in the military academy. He can point out his loneliness, but also how he excelled in some of the most difficult classes.
Episode 3: The Corsican identity- Louis Bonaparte
As a child himself Louis can show us what the family meant for Napoleon during the time his father passed away. How Napoleon took care of him and the family with his army paycheck.
Episode 4: The Revolution and the break with Corsica - Paoli
Paoli can show us the other side of the coin on how Napoleon and the Buonaparte's in general reacted towards the Revolution and its impact of Corsica. We can see how Paoli saw it only just that the Buonaparte's were driven from the island and perhaps can also show some light on some of Napoleon's failed interventions.
Episode 5: Marseille - Desiree Clary
Desiree can give us her view on Napoleon the romantic, the dreamer and the man of action. She can perhaps offer a deeper insight in Napoleon's traumatic forceful departure from Corsica and how Napoleon behaved towards his first love
Episode 6: Toulon - Junot
As a young friend of Napoleon's since the Revolution and a low ranking officer Junot might shine some light on how Napoleon was perceived by his men and can show us his detailed planning around the capture of Toulon.
Episode 7: Paris - Barras
Barras can show us how Napoleon got into contact with his faction after the reign of terror. He can tell us about Napoleon's imprisonment and introduce us to the Josephine-Napoleon relationship.
Episode 8: 13 Vendemiaire - Murat
Murat's role during the 13 Vendemiaire was vital in exploiting the use of the cannons. Murat can introduce us to the Napoleon-Murat partnership and Napoleon's dealing with the Royalist insurrection.
Episode 9: The married hero - Hortense
As a child of Josephine de Beauharnais, Hortense can show us more about the relationship between Josephine and Napoleon, their marriage and his time as godfather of the children
Episode 10: On to glory! - Massena
Massena can introduce us to Napoleon assuming command of the army of Italy. Its preperations and how he was initially perceived, but by sheer force of character turned the army around. The season ends with the army starting their march into Northern Italy.

Season 2:

Episode 1: Against all odds - Beaulieu
We see the French Revolutionary Army marching into Italy under the command of General Bonaparte. Beaulieu, as commander of the Habsburg forces, can show us light on the astonishing speed by which Napoleon knocked out Piedmont and forced the Austrians all the way passed Milan. We could see Lodi play out here as well in some extent.
Episode 2: King in all but name - Marmont
As Napoleon's aide-de-camp, Marmont is able to shed light on Napoleon the administrator and early reformer. How he challenged decissions by the Directory, orchestrated propaganda and organized the war effort whilst at the same time stamping new nations out of the ground. Also he could tell us some more about Napoleon's relationship with Josephine. How Napoleon was held ignorant for a long time about his wife's affairs.
Episode 3: Trapped - Alvinczi
As one of the few relatively succesful commanders during the four relieve attempts at Mantua during the Italian campaign, Alvinczi can show us what Napoleon faced during those crucial weeks when things could have gone both ways. He can show us light on Napoleon's brilliant use of operations and internal lines. Perhaps this episode could also contain either Rivoli or Arcole.
Episode 4: Spoils of war - Pius VI
He can show us light on Napoleon's troublesome attitude towards the Directory. Their differences on how to mob up the spoils of war left behind by the 1796-97 campaign. Napoleon's diplomatic approaches towards the Church and truce at Leoben.
Episode 5: The Hero of Italy - Josephine
Instead of giving her an episode on romance, it might actually be better to use Josephine's perspective on Napoleon's dealing with his image at home and how it influenced his diplomacy abroad. She can show us light on his support among Parisian bourgeoisie to hostility from royalist and jacobin sentiments. The episode could end with the treaty of Campo-Formio and Napoleon returnign triumphant.
Episode 6: The Orient - Talleyrand
This episode could focus on Napoleon's preperations and plotting with the Directory to further his carreer in the Orient. Talleyrand can show us more light on Napoleon the organizer and the visionary when it comes to the sciences and exploration, but also the unrealistic dreamer. The episode might end with Napoleon occupying Malta.
Episode 7: Forty centuries look down upon you - Reynier
As important player during the battle of the Pyramids, Reynier can offer us some nice details about the battle and on the conquest of Egypt in general.
Episode 8: The Pharaoh - Monge
As a scientist during the expedition, Monge can show us how Napoleon involved himself in the scientific discoveries, but also about some civilian elements of that campaign. Such as the uprising in Cairo and Napoleon the administrator.
Episode 9: The Levant - Nelson
As it was Nelson's task to destroy the French fleet and to make sure Napoleon was completely cut off he can show us some of the more disastrous elements of the campaign such as the battle of the Nile, Jaffa and the failure at Acre. The episode might end with all that bad luck overcoming Napoleon, he still manages to escape the British blockade and make it back to France.
Episode 10: Brumaire - Lucien Bonaparte
Since Lucien was one of the lucky elements of Napoleon at Brumaire and his conflicting attitude towards his brother he could provide us with an objective view towards the events playing out at Brumaire and Napoleon's rise to First Consul. He can give a detailed view on how the event played out and the roles played by various characters such as himself, Napoleon, Murat, Roger-Ducos, Sieyes, Fouché and Talleyrand. The episode might end with something like Napoleon entering the Tuileries.

I am planning to continue this later when I have the time if you are interested. I know now how long it takes to write a script. This small piece alone took me some time already .
Now that is actually a very interesting concept you've got going here. Rather than showing Napoleon's perspective at all, we're given the perspective from those either directly associated with him or otherwise involved in affairs centered around him (at varying distances). Wasn't an idea I had originally but I really like it.
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