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Old October 17th, 2017, 06:23 AM   #51

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuclearguy165 View Post
Now that is actually a very interesting concept you've got going here. Rather than showing Napoleon's perspective at all, we're given the perspective from those either directly associated with him or otherwise involved in affairs centered around him (at varying distances). Wasn't an idea I had originally but I really like it.
Indeed, it might give every episode a somewhat different twist in terms of perspective. An officer might look at things quite different from a diplomat and a family member different again from an opponent etc.
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Old October 17th, 2017, 07:39 AM   #52

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Indeed, it might give every episode a somewhat different twist in terms of perspective. An officer might look at things quite different from a diplomat and a family member different again from an opponent etc.
I love your ideas (even if I don't agree with some of them). Please continue!
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Old October 17th, 2017, 08:06 AM   #53

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@PrinceofOrange, I could go the novel route though I have played with the idea of making a comic book.
Though Napoleon is the main character it isn't so much from his perspective as it is him as the main focus. There are many perspectives (courtiers, generals, diplomats) but this is more about those individuals playing "The Game" rather than the soldiers.

@Josefa, I don't mind your going into Josephine. Technically it is useful, anything is useful.
I do see it as the Beauharnais in a cold war with the Bonapartes. After all it was the Beauharnais who benefited in spite of the Bonapartist collapse.

@Kotromanic, that is in line with how I intend to portray Marmont. For his characterization I see Marmont as a sort of Napoleon wannabe. Marmont was one of Napoleon's class mates and after years of friendship he gained Napoleon's favour. But as a character Marmont is always expecting more, when he was not made a marshal in 1804 he was clearly disappointed, when he became a marshal in 1809 he was not particularly grateful ("If Bessières is a Marshal, then anyone can be one") and was always quietly demanding more (for instance he wanted Napoleon to make him an army commander). Marmont also has the bad habit of overestimating his own abilities and fancies himself an expert strategist, though capable in battle and good at carrying out maneuvers he is clearly not the general which he believes himself to be. This builds up and culminates with his betrayal in 1814 during the negotiations in Paris. Also I should add that even though he gets thrashed by Wellington he later on demands that he be made one of the army commanders in 1813 and claims to have a winning strategy, though at this point Napoleon ignores him. At the time he also develops a sort of rivalry with Ney and MacDonald.

Last edited by Lord Oda Nobunaga; October 17th, 2017 at 08:12 AM.
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Old October 17th, 2017, 08:38 AM   #54

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I've thought a bit about the POV characters - should there be a limited number like Nuclearguy suggests or a different perspective for every topic like PrinceofOrange suggests.
For me (as a reader/viewer) this would depend on if it's a novel or a TV show. In a novel, I think I'd prefer "recurring" characters as I love to identify with the "speakers" and want to "meet" them again later in the book to see how they have been doing. In a series of movies however, I think one "narrator" for each episode would work fine for me.

A problem I could see is the balance between making the story about Napoleon while at the same time allowing the characters to remain themselves and have their own plans, sorrows and wishes, unrelated to Napoleon.
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Old October 17th, 2017, 08:52 AM   #55

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I'll compromise.

There should be a few that are main characters where as others are more relevant from arc to arc. For instance you can't really have a Metternich prior to 1809. Other characters are pretty much constant, for instance Napoleon's marshals and family members and even Tsar Alexander I suppose. Nelson can't really have more than a couple arcs because he goes out in a blaze of glory, quite literally and figuratively.
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Old October 17th, 2017, 09:22 AM   #56

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Actually lets try to figure out the rosters and the characterizations for each person (feel free to add your own and make suggestions).
Things I need to know:
1. when they were relevent
2. personality and relationships
3. what is their command/play style
4. other details such as political inclinations or events that they took part in

France
-Napoleon

generals
-marshal Louis Alexandre Berthier
-marshal Joachim Murat
-marshal Jannot de Moncey
-marshal Jean Baptiste Jourdan
-marshal Andre Massena
-marshal Pierre Augereau
-marshal Jean Baptiste Bernadotte
-marshal Guillaume Brune
-marshal Jean de Dieu Soult
-marshal Jean Lannes (if only Jean Lannes were here )
-marshal Edouard Mortier
-marshal Michel Ney
-marshal Louis Nicolas Davout
-marshal Jean Baptiste Bessieres
-marshal Francois de Kellermann
-marshal Francois Joseph Lefebvre
-marshal Catherine Dominique Perignon
-marshal Jean Serurier
-marshal Claude Victor
-marshal Jacques Macdonald
-marshal Nicolas Charles Oudinot
-marshal Auguste Marmont
-marshal Louis Gabriel Suchet
-marshal Laurent de Gouvion Saint Cyr
-marshal Jozef Antoni Poniatowski
-marshal Emmanuel de Grouchy
-marshal Louis le Blonde de Saint Hilaire
-general Jean Andoche Junot
-general Barthelemy Joubert
-general Jean Lannes
-general Jean Victor Moreau
-general Lazare Hoche
-general Jean Baptiste Kleber
-general Jean Etienne Championnet
-general Barthelemy Scherer
-general Thomas Alexandre Dumas
-general Louis Desaix (if only Louis Desaix were here )
-general Antoine Lasalle
-general Dugommier

ministers and diplomats
-Charles de Talleyrand
-Joseph Fouche
-Maximilien de Robespierre
-Augustin de Robespierre
-Paul Barras
-Emmanuel Joseph de Sieyes
-Jacques Francois Dugommier
-Lazare Carnot
-Pasquale Paoli
-Antoine Christophe Saliceti
-Stanislas Freron
-Gilbert de Lafayette
-Charles Francois Lebrun
-Jean Jacques Regis de Cambaceres
-Armand Augustin Louis de Caulaincourt
-Louis XVIII

family members and other relations
-Joseph Bonaparte
-Louis Bonaparte
-Lucien Bonaparte
-Jerome Bonaparte
-Elisa Bonaparte
-Pauline Bonaparte
-Caroline Bonaparte
-Josephine de Beauharnais
-Eugene de Beauharnais
-Hortense de Beauharnais
-Marie Walewska
-Marie Louise
-Desiree Clarey
-Louis Guinement chevalier de Keralio
-Pierre Simon Laplace
-Jean Pierre du Teil

Last edited by Lord Oda Nobunaga; October 17th, 2017 at 09:53 AM.
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Old October 17th, 2017, 12:54 PM   #57

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a fact about Napoleon and his times was the remaining conflict between "aristocratic "France and Revolutionary France
there remained a strong sympathy , both for the bourbon monarchy and the Jacobin revolution
Napoleon was playing both as circumstances dictated ,using men like Talleyrand the aristocrat and Fouche the old head chopping Jacobin
both were opposed to him and he had to ride the middle or lurching from one to the other

it got really tangled with Bernadotte a hard bitten Republican becoming King of Sweden
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Old October 17th, 2017, 06:43 PM   #58

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga View Post
Things I need to know:
1. when they were relevent
2. personality and relationships
3. what is their command/play style
4. other details such as political inclinations or events that they took part in
I'll try for some of them - of most I do not know enough to comment.

Joseph Bonaparte- the actual head of the family

- relevant: throughout Napoleon's life, for good or bad
- personality and relationship with Nap.: "it's complicated" . Mutual dependence and rivalry but also security and trust. In some aspects Joseph always remains the head of the clan - he's the one trying to sort out things between his brothers and sisters, he's the one organising the resistance in the "cold war" against the Beauharnais, he's also trying to keep Napoleon down to earth for some time and fails.
Joseph is a "bonvivant", enjoying beautiful houses, mistresses (in abundance), theatre plays, parties and conversations - but silently, without much glamour or scandals. One of his defining character traits is greed - from marrying the daughter of a wealthy merchant in Marseille to stealing the crown jewels of Spain, all his life is about accumulating wealth.
- command/play style: I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. Joseph is the "diplomat" of the family; as a matter of fact, throughout Europe during the consulate he was seen as the "good Bonaparte" as opposed to Napoleon, the bad one. Joseph appeared soft-hearted, down-to-earth, well-spoken, and had good manners - no way he would smash a set of china during negotiations. At that time he had a huge reputation and was seen as one of the major players in Napoleon's regime. Which of course resulted in Napoleon trying to keep him away from anything important. - Of military matters he seems to have understood almost as much as I do . The letters Napoleon sends him during the campaign against Naples in 1806 are a fun read (particularly when he tells Joseph to do his homework: "Write me weekly reports, like the viceroy does!").
- political inclinations and important events: conservative, a calming influence. He played a major role during the Corsican years, signed the treaty of Amiens in 1802, had a major fallout with Napoleon about the rules of succession in 1804 (Joseph for the time won), immediately followed by another quarrel about the crown of Italy (winter 1804/1805) which lasted half a year and which Joseph lost. That's in some aspects the turning point, from now on it's Napoleon who calls the shots. Joseph is ordered to become king of Naples, and pushed around the map to Spain two years later. There of course he is completely out of his depths (not that he is allowed to decide anything anyway). He again plays an important role in 1814 in Paris, and Napoleon's ambiguous attitude towards his older brother is shown in some heart-breaking letters in which he not only fears Joseph might steal away his throne but also his wife ... I don't remember in how far Joseph was involved in Napoleon's return from Elba; I'd have to look it up. And the of course there's the final farewell, with Joseph offering to Napoleon to go to the US in his place.

Biography: Thierry Lentz, "Joseph Bonaparte", 2016

A name I was missing on the list was that of Geraud Michel Duroc. Come on, he was basically Napoleon's shadow! You can't leave him out.
Another interesting figure, if only on the sidelines, might be Roustam Raza, the mameluke. I've read bits of his memoirs - highly amusing stuff!

Edit came up with two more names: Anne Jean Marie René Savary and, possibly and briefly, Louis Antoine Henri de Bourbon-Condé, duc d'Enghien.

Last edited by Josefa; October 17th, 2017 at 07:18 PM.
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Old October 17th, 2017, 07:24 PM   #59

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Excellent post.

I forgot about Duroc. Only reason I left out Roustam was because I figured he was just sort of there but didn't have much of a story.
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Old October 17th, 2017, 10:39 PM   #60

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Since this is about Who is napoleon , the idea of his friends family and associates describing him has quite a lot of appeal
like planets who are under the influence of a star , their tales can give all the facets of this enigma
he may even not appear at all , just be the central point of discussion

politicians , military , lovers ,servants , those who hated him or loved him , it matter not , could each sketch a line of his portrait

P.S. to Josepha , digging beyond the emotional I was thrilled to discover Josephine was financially competent and a mason , Since they do not accept complete idiots this would prove that she had a good mind
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