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Old November 30th, 2017, 06:21 PM   #11
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Lord Fairfax you ask were there Americian troops in Burma?-Jackie Coogan who starred with Chaplin in the movie THE 'KID' in the 1920'sf flew British Chindits behind enemy lines as a US glider pilot. I know this because he flew a friend of mine -now dead -into Burma with Chindits behind enemy lines.
See also 'US General 'Vinegar Joe Stilwell and his Chineses Nats troops.
Also m'lud Fairfax the 1946 Hollywood movie 'OBJECTIVE BURMA' created near riots among UK and Commonwealth veterans because it showed US troops under Errol Flynn and one token Indian soldier fightiing the war in Burma singlehanded with nary a British soldier to be seen.-the British 14th Army under General Bill Slim did the majority of the fighting in Burma.
Although modern versions of the film-OBJECTIVE BURMA' which is shown regularly on British tv -has a disclaimer at the start Acknowledging that Brtiain and other troops fought in Burma-but the origina 1946l movie did not have the disclaimer -hence the outrage among UK vets.
Also, although 'Saving Private Ryan' is one of favourite war movies it too took a huge liberty with history because the harrowing opening scenes on Omaha wrongly had US Navy/Coast Guard personnel steering the landing craft when it fact it was the Royal Navy who manned the landing craft depositing the US troops on Omaha beach. on June 6 1944
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Old November 30th, 2017, 07:20 PM   #12

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Lord Fairfax you ask were there Americian troops in Burma?-Jackie Coogan who starred with Chaplin in the movie THE 'KID' in the 1920'sf flew British Chindits behind enemy lines as a US glider pilot. I know this because he flew a friend of mine -now dead -into Burma with Chindits behind enemy lines.
See also 'US General 'Vinegar Joe Stilwell and his Chineses Nats troops.
Hi Pendennis, yes I did know about the US supply & Air Force in Burma, but not actual ground troops AFAIK, as you mention it was British, Indians and some Chinese boots on the ground
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Old December 1st, 2017, 05:17 AM   #13

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Hitler had no reason to declare war against the US. He had enough to deal with already. His so-called "partner" in the Axis was giving him no help in dealing with Russia and in fact had signed a non-agression pact with the Soviets.
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Old December 1st, 2017, 05:29 AM   #14

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Originally Posted by Lord Fairfax View Post
Hi Pendennis, yes I did know about the US supply & Air Force in Burma, but not actual ground troops AFAIK, as you mention it was British, Indians and some Chinese boots on the ground

There was a US combat troops in Burma as far as I know, it was a regiment sized (but without regiment heavy weapons) 5307th Composite Unit called Merrill's Marauders, specilialized in long range penetration and jungle warfare.
Not a great participation.

Last edited by Tairusiano; December 1st, 2017 at 06:38 AM.
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Old December 1st, 2017, 03:04 PM   #15
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I know that hitler did not have to declare war on US but why did he? Was it just world domination? He could have had pretty much all Europe til he invited us to the war. & I guess we were happy to oblige him.

Also Why did US get stuck going against (mostly) japan and Russia just kind of screwed off after Germany. I Know about D day and what we did to open the flood gates of hell on them. Seems like contributions came from all allied powers but just seemed like it to me we got stuck fighting these suicidal gofers digging holes everywhere by ourselves (& maybe British forces). I went through college history but we spent more time on other useless things. If I could just get a dumbed down answer cause I am not an expert nor do I claim to be. thanks
Part of why Hitler declared war on the USA was because of the tripartite pact between Germany, Italy and Japan. Although this was a defensive pact Hitler decided to declare war on the USA anyway after Japan attacked. The other reasons are the lend lease the USA was giving to the UK and the usually blabla about the USA being a Jewish puppet state.

I wouldn't say Hitler could have had it all by that point as Germany was already at war with the Soviet Union at that point. Its rather speculative whether or not the Soviets would have won without US involvement.

As for the second part. The Soviet Union DID attack Japan in august 1945. They launched a highly successful invasion against Japanese occupied Manchuria.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet...n_of_Manchuria

3 months isn't really an excessive time to move an entire army halfway across the globe.

And don't forget the Chinese. They were fighting the Japanese since 1937 and were still fighting the main body of the Japanese army in 1945.
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Old December 1st, 2017, 03:58 PM   #16
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Were there US troops in Burma?
Obviously most of the troops who reconquered Burma under the great General Slim were Anglo-Indian, with some from China and British Africa. The only US ground troops in Burma were the regiment sized 5307th Composite Unit (GALAHAD Force/Merril's Marauders), and after they were withdrawn in Aug'44, the 5337th Provisional Brigade (MARS Force). MARS Force consisted of the 124th Cavalry Regiment, the 475th Infantry Regiment, the 612th and 613th Artillery Battalions and a Chinese unit.

There were also the 10th and 14th US Air Forces operating from India and China which eventually controlled 17 combat groups (including 6 Air Commando, Cargo and Troop Carrier Groups) with over 1500 aircraft in January '45. The B-29s of the 20th Air Force also operated initially from India, but were not involved in the Burma campaigns.

There were also large numbers of construction and railroad troops who built the logistics infrastructure in Assam that supported Slims campaign, and the Ledo/Burma Road.

The US Army history says there were over 195,000 US Army troops in China Burma India Theater in June '45. This includes the Army Ground Forces, Air Forces and Service Forces, but probably not the OSS types in China and leading the Cachin Rangers.

Last edited by Dentatus; December 1st, 2017 at 05:14 PM.
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Old December 1st, 2017, 05:46 PM   #17

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. . . Also Why did US get stuck going against (mostly) japan and Russia just kind of screwed off after Germany.
And the bulk of the US war effort went to defeating Germany, depending what you're counting, anywhere from 2:1 to 3:1 when compared to the Pacific effort.
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Old December 2nd, 2017, 01:57 AM   #18

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Hitler already believed the US was effectively at war with him, and assumed that the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor would cause the US to priortise the war on Japan.
Hitler knew that he needed to defeat the Soviets by late 1942 or 1943 or lose the war, even without US involvement. The declaration of war which he had promised Japan if they attacked the US and Britain was an effort to buy time before serious US involvement in the European war could have an effect.
The gamble failed and made his situation worse because his forces were unable to defeat the Soviets in the time frame Hitler needed.

Last edited by redcoat; December 2nd, 2017 at 02:04 AM.
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Old December 2nd, 2017, 03:40 AM   #19
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If Japan truly was a helpful partner to Germany then they would have opened a second front on Russia. They had their own agenda, which did not include assisting Germany in any meaningful way. Equally I do not believe that Hitler declared war on US for the benefit of the Japanese; it would surprise me if they told Hitler about the attack on Pearl Harbour before it happened, which tells you all you need to know about this 'alliance'.

I also don't buy that Hitler 'got in first' before the US could declare war on him. Germany and the US had effectively been at war for some time, so why hadn't the US officially declared war? And if they were reluctant or unable to do so before Pearl Harbour, it would be even more dificult after, when most Americans would be looking East rather than West for vengance.

Hitler didn't need to declare war on the US; he could continue to have a 'hidden' naval war whilst he concentrated on Russia and the US concentrated on Japan; which to some extent would have satisfied both parties. And (as I have mentioned on previous threads) after the attack on Pearl Harbour, Hitler could have used a maskirovka, breaking the pact with Japan, perhaps even declaring war on Japan and offering aid to the US. This may have swayed public opinion in the US and delayed - even prevented - any declaration of war by the US on Germany.

Personally I think Hitler declared war on the US to bolster his popularity and the belief of his troops at a time when the war in Russia was starting to turn; if the Fuhrer could declare war on the US then things must be better than they appeared, or he had a trick up his sleeve, just like with the 'wonder weapons'. Quite reasonably he would suspect that the US would want to concentrate on avenging themselves on the Japanese, and not want to open up an incredibly dificult second front against Germany. It was still an incredibly dumb move, but Hitler even at this stage thought that he could do no wrong.
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Old December 2nd, 2017, 10:36 AM   #20
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If Japan truly was a helpful partner to Germany then they would have opened a second front on Russia. They had their own agenda, which did not include assisting Germany in any meaningful way. Equally I do not believe that Hitler declared war on US for the benefit of the Japanese; it would surprise me if they told Hitler about the attack on Pearl Harbour before it happened, which tells you all you need to know about this 'alliance'.

I also don't buy that Hitler 'got in first' before the US could declare war on him. Germany and the US had effectively been at war for some time, so why hadn't the US officially declared war? And if they were reluctant or unable to do so before Pearl Harbour, it would be even more dificult after, when most Americans would be looking East rather than West for vengance.

Hitler didn't need to declare war on the US; he could continue to have a 'hidden' naval war whilst he concentrated on Russia and the US concentrated on Japan; which to some extent would have satisfied both parties. And (as I have mentioned on previous threads) after the attack on Pearl Harbour, Hitler could have used a maskirovka, breaking the pact with Japan, perhaps even declaring war on Japan and offering aid to the US. This may have swayed public opinion in the US and delayed - even prevented - any declaration of war by the US on Germany.

Personally I think Hitler declared war on the US to bolster his popularity and the belief of his troops at a time when the war in Russia was starting to turn; if the Fuhrer could declare war on the US then things must be better than they appeared, or he had a trick up his sleeve, just like with the 'wonder weapons'. Quite reasonably he would suspect that the US would want to concentrate on avenging themselves on the Japanese, and not want to open up an incredibly dificult second front against Germany. It was still an incredibly dumb move, but Hitler even at this stage thought that he could do no wrong.
I know Hitler wasn't the lighest bulb in the toolshed but I don't think he was dumb enough to do what you're suggesting in your last paragraph, especially seeing the US's arrival in WWI, a war the guy had built his entire career on monday morning quarterbacking that conflict and later intervention against Germany and her allies had been a huge problem whether from the UK, US or Italy. I'd have a little more easy time believing if it wasn't coinciding with the Japan attack but I think it was so Japan would quickly knock out the USSR. Remember at this point, Japan is undertaking a very large offensive against a ton of other non USA targets both big and small why would it be so crazy for Hitler to think the Japanese could send land troops from China into Russia? The Japanese navy rather than their army was also what would do the lionshare of the fighting versus the USA.

Another thing is Japan had a history of invading any territory in the region it was apparent they would be successful in conquering because their enemy's were distracted(Germany knew this all to well from their own experience). They did this in both WWI and WWII and quite literally in basically every situation they had the opportunity to do so(French, British, Dutch in WWII) except the one Hitler was banking on. The reason is the Japs probably simply didn't want Russian territory but it was far less crazy than trying to instill a false sense of calm or because it just might not come back to bite him. Japanese did do for what Hitler wanted them to do on the Russians on the European powers he fought so why not do it to the Russians too?

Also Hitler was right if he thought that and the US did spend most of their resources early on in fighting the Japanese. He should also have been able to know that chances were pretty good the Japanese would lose though and that this equation was very subject to change. I'm someone who thinks Japan could have won WWII as well but it should be clear to even a semi aware observer the odds were in the USA's favor heck the Japanese were aware the odds were in the USA's favor. WWI and all that Germany had learned from it seems to make it unlikely that Germany.

Finally the war really hadn't turned against Germany in the USSR yet, if Hitler decides to march on Moscow instead of going south in 1942, he probably still easily wins. Think morale was probably still pretty high, it was not readily apparent that his offensive on the USSR was doomed and in reality it wasn't either and wouldn't be for some time.

Last edited by Emperor of Wurttemburg 43; December 2nd, 2017 at 10:40 AM.
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