Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > Themes in History > War and Military History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

War and Military History War and Military History Forum - Warfare, Tactics, and Military Technology over the centuries


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old June 28th, 2018, 08:54 AM   #21
Lecturer
 
Joined: Sep 2016
From: India
Posts: 347

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart Dale View Post
If you are talking about Huns, you are taking about late ancient period, early medieval, beyond the times of the Vedas.

When you read the Vedas, and passages like this, there is very little description of the actual arms and armor of the combats, and even the battle descriptions are generic. Were long lances used? Were bows? What kind of armor was used? What kind of shield, of what material? Were the soldiers that surprised the Huns on foot or horse?

In other places (China, Rome), we have stone illustrations and paintings/mosaics that can help show us how soldiers were armed, but we don't have similar Indian illustrations of soldiers and armies for Rigveda time, although for the time of the Huns we do, I think.

Anyways, those texts you describe don't seem to have a lot of detailed description, unless there are others more detailed.
I think the light cavalry were sent to draw the Huns into the trap. The surprising thing is, this awesome battle that probably rid India of the Huns comes to us from the journals of Hieun Tsang. Indian kings preferred to record history on stone inscriptions in a manner which accentuated their courage even though they most probably were cunning and strategic as Baladitya was.

Anyways, this is ancient times as for India, medieval times begins with the appearance of the Arabs.
haniqbal is offline  
Remove Ads
Old June 28th, 2018, 08:55 AM   #22

Frank81's Avatar
Guanarteme
 
Joined: Feb 2010
From: Canary Islands-Spain
Posts: 4,761

You're welcome, hope to see new info soon
Frank81 is offline  
Old June 28th, 2018, 11:51 AM   #23
Lecturer
 
Joined: Sep 2016
From: India
Posts: 347

Continuing with Ajatshatru:

Eager to expand his kingdom of Magadh, we already saw that he came into conflict with Kosala. Prasenjit and Ajatshatru made peace and then Ajatshatru declared war on the Licchavis. The Vaishali Republic (Licchavis) lived on the on the other side of the confluence of rivers that marked Magadha's borders. So Ajatshatru built a fort here to operate as a base to invade Licchavi territory and a defensible location to fall back to or defend his nation.

However, he was repulsed in all his invasions by the strong archers of the enemy. Thereupon his engineers built for him scythed chariots which he used in the next battles to rout the enemy. The Licchavis retreated within their well defended capital of Vaishali. They were unassailable due to their unity.

So Ajatshatru sent a minister as a spy to sow seeds of discord. His engineers also built for him catapults. With this he made an assault on the city and the disunited Licchavis fell to him.
haniqbal is offline  
Old June 28th, 2018, 01:21 PM   #24
Citizen
 
Joined: Jun 2017
From: Seoul
Posts: 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by haniqbal View Post
For info about indian battles and tactics I literally had to slog through ancient sources myself and spend hours. The info is that scarce.

Another battle: (Prasenjit of Kosala vs Ajatshatru of Magadha)

Prasenjit placed his valiant men on raised ground on his flanks. The ground was probably covered with brush as it was hidden. His frontline fought the Magadhans and slowly retreated. Suddenly the Kosala soldiers burst from their spot and attacked the Magadhans, surrounding them. Ajatashatru was thus captured.

This is taken from the Jatakas, which are moral stories from Buddhist times, which is why I doubt their authenticity. If this is true however, it is the first case of double envelopment in history, 200 years before Hannibal.
Where did you discover this content?
Can you inform me the title of book?
Stefan cel Mare is offline  
Old June 28th, 2018, 07:39 PM   #25
Lecturer
 
Joined: Sep 2016
From: India
Posts: 347

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan cel Mare View Post
Where did you discover this content?
Can you inform me the title of book?
Jatakas, stories of Buddha's past lives. Search Jatakas, Ajatshatru on the Internet.
haniqbal is offline  
Old July 1st, 2018, 06:26 AM   #26
Lecturer
 
Joined: Sep 2016
From: India
Posts: 347

Battle of Potali King and Kaling King.

Got this one from the Jatakas too. The Kalinga king had a powerful army but found no pretext to go to war against his neighbors. So he provoked the king of the Assaka country, ruling from the capital of Potali. He then took his army towards the country to do war. On the way, he met a monk who was learned and revered. The monk predicted that he would beat the Assakas.

The King of Potali's minister had a good spy network that fed him information. He learnt of this and himself visited the monk and asked him what the omens of the victor would be. The monk replied that the victor's sign would be a spotless white bull and that of the loser would be a black bull.

My guess is that these were the respective flags of the two nations. In the battle, the armies tried to defeat the other, but neither made headway and disengaged, except at the centre where the two kings and their body guard fought on.

The minister asked his king if the white bull of the Kalingas was visible. He replied in the affirmative. The minister asked him to dismount from his horse and personally lead the assault on the area where the white bull was held. Meanwhile, as the two armies watched on, the minister readied 1000 veterans and armed them with spears.

As the kings and their bodyguard fought in the centre, the minister sent the 1000 soldiers to strike the king and his men in the flank. This sudden attack routed the king and his bodyguard and felled the white bull.

Seeing this, the Kalinga soldiers who had hung back routed.

My guess is that the white bull was the banner of the Kalingas (the white bull is referred to as their tutelary god) and seeing this banner fall, the Kalingas routed. What do you guys think?
haniqbal is offline  
Old July 1st, 2018, 09:54 AM   #27

rvsakhadeo's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Sep 2012
From: India
Posts: 8,459

Quote:
Originally Posted by haniqbal View Post
Battle of Potali King and Kaling King.

Got this one from the Jatakas too. The Kalinga king had a powerful army but found no pretext to go to war against his neighbors. So he provoked the king of the Assaka country, ruling from the capital of Potali. He then took his army towards the country to do war. On the way, he met a monk who was learned and revered. The monk predicted that he would beat the Assakas.

The King of Potali's minister had a good spy network that fed him information. He learnt of this and himself visited the monk and asked him what the omens of the victor would be. The monk replied that the victor's sign would be a spotless white bull and that of the loser would be a black bull.

My guess is that these were the respective flags of the two nations. In the battle, the armies tried to defeat the other, but neither made headway and disengaged, except at the centre where the two kings and their body guard fought on.

The minister asked his king if the white bull of the Kalingas was visible. He replied in the affirmative. The minister asked him to dismount from his horse and personally lead the assault on the area where the white bull was held. Meanwhile, as the two armies watched on, the minister readied 1000 veterans and armed them with spears.

As the kings and their bodyguard fought in the centre, the minister sent the 1000 soldiers to strike the king and his men in the flank. This sudden attack routed the king and his bodyguard and felled the white bull.

Seeing this, the Kalinga soldiers who had hung back routed.

My guess is that the white bull was the banner of the Kalingas (the white bull is referred to as their tutelary god) and seeing this banner fall, the Kalingas routed. What do you guys think?
Unfortunately, I am clueless about the ancient history of our country !
rvsakhadeo is offline  
Old July 1st, 2018, 07:58 PM   #28
Lecturer
 
Joined: Sep 2016
From: India
Posts: 347

Quote:
Originally Posted by rvsakhadeo View Post
Unfortunately, I am clueless about the ancient history of our country !
Im pretty sire you know way more than. The reason why most people dont know about this is because our lazy historians. Choose to ignore it and say 'Indian warfare was largely ritualistic' with no tactics. If that was the case how were we able to beat the Assyrians, Persians, Greeks, Huns, Parthians, Scythians, Arabs and other invaders? We remained independent from foreign control for longer than any nation.
haniqbal is offline  
Old July 2nd, 2018, 01:17 AM   #29

rvsakhadeo's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Sep 2012
From: India
Posts: 8,459

Quote:
Originally Posted by haniqbal View Post
Im pretty sire you know way more than. The reason why most people dont know about this is because our lazy historians. Choose to ignore it and say 'Indian warfare was largely ritualistic' with no tactics. If that was the case how were we able to beat the Assyrians, Persians, Greeks, Huns, Parthians, Scythians, Arabs and other invaders? We remained independent from foreign control for longer than any nation.
It depends on actually how you define ancient history. If Vedic timeline is presumed as the limit for ancient history, then all I know is the Ten Kings' battle. But if it pushed out to Chandragupta Maurya's time, then I know, of course about Alexander and Porus and thereafter Chandragupta's defeat of Seleucus Nicator.
rvsakhadeo is offline  
Old July 2nd, 2018, 01:29 AM   #30
Lecturer
 
Joined: Sep 2016
From: India
Posts: 347

Quote:
Originally Posted by rvsakhadeo View Post
It depends on actually how you define ancient history. If Vedic timeline is presumed as the limit for ancient history, then all I know is the Ten Kings' battle. But if it pushed out to Chandragupta Maurya's time, then I know, of course about Alexander and Porus and thereafter Chandragupta's defeat of Seleucus Nicator.
AFAIK battle with Seleucus Nicator has no details. It just says he crossed the River Indus and made a treaty with Chandragupta Maurya. If you have any other details of the war, could you share here?
haniqbal is offline  
Reply

  Historum > Themes in History > War and Military History

Tags
account, ancient, battles, indian



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Details about ancient battles impblack War and Military History 10 May 16th, 2014 09:50 AM
Battles of the Ancient World Cato the Younger Ancient History 16 August 19th, 2013 08:03 AM
Ancient battles won by numbers alone tomar Ancient History 26 May 15th, 2013 02:58 PM
How Did Ancient Battles End? Brisieis War and Military History 31 December 29th, 2011 10:50 AM
Stamina and fatigue in Ancient battles spqr95 War and Military History 2 July 1st, 2011 03:50 AM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.