Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > Themes in History > War and Military History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

War and Military History War and Military History Forum - Warfare, Tactics, and Military Technology over the centuries


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old June 28th, 2018, 02:24 AM   #1

frogsofwar's Avatar
Academician
 
Joined: May 2018
From: Michigan
Posts: 80
Hindenburg


Id like to solicit some opinions on Paul von Hindenburg. While he was no Moltke or Frederick the Great, he did manage to pull off a decisive victory in a war where decisive victories were rare. I mean "decisive" in the tactical sense, not the strategic.

The Battle of Tannenberg saw the destruction of two Russian armies. 150,000 Germans vs 230,000 Russians, with 13,000 German losses and 170,000 Russian casualties.

In a war where advancing a few hundred feet could be lauded as a victory, Tannenberg stands as an achievement that is underrated.
frogsofwar is offline  
Remove Ads
Old June 28th, 2018, 03:26 AM   #2

Duke Valentino's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2017
From: Australia
Posts: 1,587
Blog Entries: 1

This is the Russians we're talking about though.
Duke Valentino is online now  
Old June 28th, 2018, 04:00 AM   #3
Historian
 
Joined: Aug 2016
From: Dispargum
Posts: 2,496

Hindenburg must share the credit for Tannenburg with his chief of staff Ludendorf and his chief of operations, Max Hoffman.
Chlodio is online now  
Old June 28th, 2018, 04:09 AM   #4

nuclearguy165's Avatar
Snake's Eye
 
Joined: Nov 2011
From: Ohio, USA
Posts: 4,555

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Valentino View Post
This is the Russians we're talking about though.
Just 10 years earlier, the Japanese never managed anything quite so smashing against the Russians. Even if the Russians invariably were forced to retreat (giving the Japanese the strategic advantage), the Japanese were only managing slight tactical victories.

Though I suppose to be fair, Kuropatkin was a much better general than the likes of Samsonov and Rennenkampf.
nuclearguy165 is offline  
Old June 28th, 2018, 06:26 AM   #5

Murffy's Avatar
Lecturer
 
Joined: Feb 2017
From: Minneapolis
Posts: 348

I never studied the battle very deeply but from general descriptions it always seemed the ponderous, ill-prepared nature of the Russian armies was the main source of their undoing.
Murffy is offline  
Old June 28th, 2018, 07:55 AM   #6
Historian
 
Joined: Aug 2016
From: Dispargum
Posts: 2,496

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murffy View Post
I never studied the battle very deeply but from general descriptions it always seemed the ponderous, ill-prepared nature of the Russian armies was the main source of their undoing.

Yes, the Russians at Tannenburg made it easy for Hindenburg and Ludendorf. If Tannenburg had been their only success, we could write off Tannenburg as the fault of Russian incompetence rather than any greatness of Hindenburg's. But the Hindenburg/Ludendorf team had so much success in that war so that we must attribute most of the Tannenburg success to the Germans rather than to Russian failure.
Chlodio is online now  
Old June 28th, 2018, 08:06 AM   #7
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2016
From: USA
Posts: 6,129

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chlodio View Post
Hindenburg must share the credit for Tannenburg with his chief of staff Ludendorf and his chief of operations, Max Hoffman.
This. Hindenburg knew how to manage talent.
aggienation is offline  
Old June 28th, 2018, 08:07 AM   #8

Kotromanic's Avatar
McCartneynite-Lennonist
 
Joined: Dec 2011
From: Iowa USA
Posts: 4,051
Blog Entries: 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chlodio View Post
Yes, the Russians at Tannenburg made it easy for Hindenburg and Ludendorf. If Tannenburg had been their only success, we could write off Tannenburg as the fault of Russian incompetence rather than any greatness of Hindenburg's. But the Hindenburg/Ludendorf team had so much success in that war so that we must attribute most of the Tannenburg success to the Germans rather than to Russian failure.
Watch it there...

"... team had so much success ..."

Not in the Front that mattered they did not. Foch always had the situation in hand in 1918, and the Germans went well beyond where they could be supplied.

Actually, Churchill (1931) and many others really credit the Spring Offensive for making a conclusion to the Western Front in '18 possible.
Kotromanic is offline  
Old June 28th, 2018, 08:11 AM   #9
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2016
From: USA
Posts: 6,129

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kotromanic View Post
Watch it there...

"... team had so much success ..."

Not in the Front that mattered they did not. Foch always had the situation in hand in 1918, and the Germans went well beyond where they could be supplied.

Actually, Churchill (1931) and many others really credit the Spring Offensive for making a conclusion to the Western Front in '18 possible.
The Eastern Front never truly devolved into positional warfare locked in by coast to coast trench systems. The German way of warfare emphasized mobile warfare, bewegungskrieg, which the Germans could still execute in the Eastern Front, but could not in the Western because of the impossibility of creating or exploiting a breakthrough following the first battle of the Marne.
aggienation is offline  
Old June 28th, 2018, 08:18 AM   #10
Historian
 
Joined: Mar 2014
From: Lithuania
Posts: 1,600

Germans managed to capture massive fortress of Kaunas in Lithuania in 11 days. Russian defense of the fortress was criminally incompetent. If they performed similarly in Tannenberg there is no wonder that they lost.
janusdviveidis is offline  
Reply

  Historum > Themes in History > War and Military History

Tags
cyber, hindenburg, information, ops, warfare



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hindenburg Explosion 75 Years Later tjadams American History 15 February 8th, 2016 06:53 AM
Hindenburg and Ludendorff: Underlankers European History 53 July 4th, 2015 05:59 PM
Alternate History Challenge: Paul von Hindenburg never appoints Hitler: Underlankers Speculative History 25 March 24th, 2015 11:53 PM
Could Paul Von Hindenburg's will have stopped Hitler? AlbelNox European History 3 March 23rd, 2014 03:50 PM
The Battle of the St. Quentin Canal, or how the Hindenburg Line was broken: Underlankers War and Military History 3 April 16th, 2013 03:30 AM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.