blacksmit049

Could the Germans really defeat the Russians in battle of Kursk if they did not divide their divisions in the defense of Italy?

Are the German High Command correct that the Kursk is in the brink of victory if Hitler did not command a retreat?

Although this is speculative, but this thread is an analysis of whether the German capabilities are enough to destroy the defensive lines at Kursk.

bartieboy

i dont know, how many divisions exactly did the germans have to take from the russian front towards italy?

if i were a german soldier and i just heard i was going to be send from kursk to italy id be insanely happy :P

srb7677

I personally doubt that the Germans could have achieved victory at Kursk, even with a few more divisions available. With more men the Germans could have battered away for a bit longer, and suffered heavier losses, possibly advancing a few more miles. But I think they would have been worn down in the end anyway. They might have stood a better chance if they had attacked 6 weeks earlier before the Soviet defensive preparations had become quite so extensive.

If the Germans HAD won at Kursk, they would have pulled off a major encirclement operation and ripped a large hole in the Soviet front which could have been exploited. This may have enabled the Germans to race toward Moscow. But even if they had got there it is unlikely that they would have been able to do so in sufficient strength and numbers to conduct a major encirclement of the city.It is likely that another street by street battle would have ensued, with the Germans being bled dry in yet another Stalingrad type battle.

In short, victory for the Germans at Kursk is unlikely to have defeated the Soviet Union, merely put it on the defensive for the rest of that summer. This may have delayed the ultimate Soviet advance on Berlin, and may have resulted later in the western allies reaching Berlin first and conqering a greater share of Germany. But it would not have enabled Germany to win the war.

Belloc

With how well the Soviet defenses were prepared and in such depth, a German victory would've been highly unlikely.

bartieboy

because if it failed the first time against a unprepared enemy (not completely but you know what i mean) then why would it succeed some time later against a prepared enemy?

arras

Battle was lost by time those divisions were send to Italy. It just made Soviet great summer offensive which followed bit easier.

Bye the way, what do you mean by "German High Command"? Your statement certainly was not official one made by OKW. I know Manstein was of this opinion, but not many else in German command.

Belloc

Guedarian I know tried to urge Hitler not to launch the offensive at Kursk in the first place.

irishcrusader95

by this stage in the war the outlook was very grim for germany. they had counted on a quick war in which their mechanized divisions and air power would allow them to race through the soviet union and destroy or seriously impair it before it could mobilize and prepare a proper defence. when this failed it turned into what the german commanders knew they had little chance of winning against, a long war in which numbers and resources counted. i agree with srb7677 view that even if they had won their forces would have been too bled out have suffered too many casualties to pose a major overall treat.

but from the view of the germans at the time what other choice did they have, best defence is a good offence. if they didn't launch it there was no hope of wining but if they did launch the attack and some how win they stood a chance however small of turning the tide

pablo668

The biggest problem with Kursk was that the Russians pretty much knew the Germans were coming and where they would attack, thus they prepared accordingly.
A few more divisions wouldn't have made a great deal of difference in the end.

rehabnonono

I blame it all on Hitler again. The Wehrmacht could have, given the resources and men made a determined push back into Russian territory, if they had a leader who could think very differently to what was expected. The German command were in self preservation mode and very scared of Hitler, hardly in a position to make any grand plans. Hitler was just thinking about how such a marvelous attacking machine like the Wehrmacht with such a powerful "will", could possibly continued to defend. It was true that many young officers had never been trained to retreat. But once again, it was the moron Hitler who imagined he could do anything with any number of troops in any condition of morale, deciding to prop up another equally moronic former journalist Mussolini, at a time when his own men needed every soldier who could stand in the line. Maybe it was a bigger thrill to lord it over Mussolini at cocktail parties at the Wolf's lair.

So much of Hitler was ego and bluster. This moron, a corporal who had seen the line, but never actually stood in one at any time in his life. Surrounded by men who had led other men to their deaths many times over. Why on earth didn't they try to kill him earlier?

Delusions of grandeur and psychosis ruled.