mister

I would consider Pompey as an overrated general.Mostly because of his credit taking from other generals such as Grassus when he claims to have ended the third Servile War despite the fact that it was Grassus who crushed Spartucas' army.Pompey also was close to losing in the revolt in Spain and after all this he was considered the best general in Rome.

DIVUS IVLIVS

Sorry Mister, but for once I'm going to have to disagree with you. For all I look down on Pompey's contemptible decision to support the Optimates against Caesar, I can acknowledge that he was very much a great military leader, not the greatest ever produced by Rome, but close to it (in the end of course he had the misfortune to pitt himself against the definite greatest general Rome ever produced, and suffered for it).

Pompey was very much the consumate strategist - he used his brilliant skills at organization to build up an advantage for himself to the point where battles were a foregone conclusion, and all evidence is that he was very good at it. He was also a very competent commander who might not have posessed Caesar's tactical genius, but was still quite capable of coming up with brilliant moves of his own.

gashead

I think that Patton was overrated myself. All of his 'Victories' never take in to account the bigger picture.

Sicily: He made to it the port of Messina first, despite being given orders to support Montgomery who had stalled facing the bulk of German/Italian opposition

France: His Breakout had been won by allied efforts around Caen, drawing in most of the German Army and reserves.

Bastogne: His 'rescue' of the 101st Airborne Division. I believe that no-one has ever said that they needed rescuing.

I expect I'm going to get some angry posts for what I've just said.

Belisarius

Yet another thread I've lost track of <sigh> !

Did Rommel conduct a great 'tactical' campaign? Or was it that the Germans had perfected a viable doctrine since 1919, while the British bumbled around as Imperial policemen, "muddling through"?

Galerius' Ghost

I have to agree with DIVUS IULIVS, I don't think you can really call Pompey overrated. He was far from being one of the greatest generals Rome ever produced, but he was certainly capable and was unquestionably one of the best military minds of his time. He was a master of logistics, administration, and organization. It is true that he was every bit Lucullus' "vulture", he never failed to take credit for someone elses triumphs, and he was shown on the field to not be the equal of Sertorius or Caesar (but, then again, few men were). He performed very well in the civil wars between Marius and Sulla, and though he did take advantage of Lucullus' hard work, you can't simply discount the huge amount of territory that he brought under Roman sway in the East. He also handed Caesar one of his only defeats at Dyrrhachium, and in general, I think he handled the Pharsalus campaign quite competently (he just lost the decisive battle to a far better tactician). Pompey's finest moment came against the Cilician pirates. It was an undertaking that played right into his strengths and he delivered. I think a lot of the problem people have with him is that he bore the title "the great", but that title may have actually been bestowed upon him as a joke at his expense. My feeling is that Pompey is generally regarded about the way he should be; a competent general with a great talent for organization. Basically, a good general, but not great.

Chookie

Not from me at any rate. I totally agree.

Trevor Lane

Here's a General who at least thought his accomplishments were much more than anyone else thought of them, Brigadier General David Grange (Ret.). He was a Major General who commanded the 1st Infantry Division in the late 1990s. During that time I was placed on the 1st ID task force to Kosovo, the Initial Entry Force, commanded by BG Craddock, who would have probably been a better CG than Grange. The task force did your jobs well and our General led from the front, but it was a relatively easy peacekeeping mission. Shortly ater returning, Grange retires. He expects that "his" leadership of the Kosovo operation warrants a waiver to keep his second star after retirement despite not having met time in grade. This doesn't happen so he slams everyone in the Army in an op-ed piece in Stars n' Stripes. Needless to say, you might see him now on CNN as a military expert who basically criticises anything that the military does because he's still butt-hurt about retiring as a Brigadier.

DIVUS IVLIVS

Pretty much my feelings, although perhaps it's just the Caesar partisan in me, but I don't really award the battle of Dyrrachium to Pompey. His success in that battle came down to two Gauls who were serving in Caesar's army commanding a cavalry force being caught stealing money they were supposed to be paying their men with, and defecting to Pompey, bringing him valuable information about the weak-points in Caesar's lines.

Personally, I think that Pompey's greatest moment on a battlefield was in Spain, against Perperna (Sertorius's lieutenant and murderer), when he quite cleverly lured his opponent into a battle and soon crushed him.

Galerius' Ghost

Still, I think you have to give credit to Pompey, finding the vulnerable spot in Caesar's line and attacking it was his responsibility and he did it (no matter how). He then forced Caesar to fight a battle under unadvantageous conditions and Caesar was defeated. He most certainly did blunder when he didn't follow up the routing Caesarians but I don't think you can really question his conduct during the battle before then.

DIVUS IVLIVS

No, I agree he handled it quite well (although as always the higher praise must go to Caesar's extraordinary command). Personally I have always thought that Pompey made the right decision in not following up this attack. Contrary to the statements of the ancient writers, from what we know of the situation "following up" on the rout would not have been nearly as easy as it sounds. Pompey had gained his victory by breaking through the weakest point of Caesar's lines. The "lines" in question were, from the descriptions, a veritable maze of fortifications and trenches that even their own defenders could get lost in. Had Pompey launched further attacks he may well have been thrown back, and that would have put a huge dampener on what he had just done. In Adrian Goldsworthy (one of my favorite writers of Roman History)'s opinion, Pompey's military judgement was sound in consolidating what he had just won.