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View Poll Results: Who is the greatest admiral in history
Hayeddin Barbarossa 3 6.82%
Robert Blake 0 0%
Thomas Cochrane 1 2.27%
George Dewey 0 0%
Karl Doenitz 1 2.27%
David Glasgow Farragut 0 0%
Alfred Thayer Mahan 0 0%
Horatio Nelson 24 54.55%
Chester William Nimitz 3 6.82%
Michiel de Ruyter 6 13.64%
Andrea Doria 0 0%
Yi Sun-shin 3 6.82%
Heihachiro Togo 1 2.27%
Hoter 2 4.55%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 27th, 2011, 12:52 PM   #51

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Originally Posted by leakbrewergator View Post
TBH, I still haven't. It still seems a bit to conspiracyish for me. I still haven't seen corroborating evidence from a reliable source.
I don't know what would be considered "corroborating evidence", but there is a new book out "The Battle of Midway" by Craig L. Symonds and published by Oxford University Press. Shattered Sword is in the bibliography, and it is cited several times in the main text. The author of this new book reports that the flight decks were empty except for a few CAP fighters. The reason that the decks could not have been loaded with planes is simple, and exactly as Shattered Sword concluded: The constant attacks against the Japanese carriers meant that they had to continually launch and recover the CAP, leaving no time to spot an attack. Furthermore, since Fuchida, the main source for the "Fatal 10 minutes" story, was on the Akagi. The only hit on Akagi hit in the center of the flight deck and penetrated to the hanger before exploding, not on the aft portion of the flight deck, where Fuchida claimed a bomb exploded among the planes waiting to launch.

I think the "Fatal 10 minutes" story has been officially laid to rest, however I imagine it will continue to be told, given the decades it has had to become entrenched.
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Old November 27th, 2011, 01:45 PM   #52

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17th century: de Ruyter (Dutch)
18th century: de Grasse (French)
19th century: Nelson (British)
20th century: Fletcher (American)

I am inclined to agree with the 17th and 19th century picks. (I know doodly-squat about the 20th, so dare not venture an opinion.)
But why DeGrasse? Graves and Hood were rather unimaginative (fortunately for the future USA) compared to Rodney who destroyed him at the Saintes. If we must go French, why not Suffren?

I join those who would add Themistocles to the list.

I'm also impressed with Yi Sun Shin of Korea. Yes, his "turtle ships" at Myeongnyang were sort of like the CSS Virginia unleashed at Hampton Roads before the Monitor showed up. Still, that was a neat one and not his only victory.
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Old November 27th, 2011, 01:55 PM   #53

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One name that should be put forward for the 20th century is Cunningham in the 'Med' during WWII, did very well with limited resources.
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Old November 28th, 2011, 04:38 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by sylla1 View Post
It is often ignored here that the success at war depends not only on the commander, but also on having the best weapons, subordinates, soldiers and logistics.

That tautology is particularly evident for naval warfare; it's clear that most of the naval forces of the admirals mentioned above would have won against their actual historical enemies even under other professional commanders...
... possibly even in the case of Dönitz; most other admirals above simply had the best naval force by large (irrespectively on the mere numbers)

Considering his personal tactical excellence (i.e. winning over superior numbers of equivalent fleets & crews) and especially his groundbreaking legacy (he also had a lot of charisma, even is such point is IMHO mostly irrelevant for the rating) my choice must be Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa.

Yeh, I think technology and organization played a big role. Particularly around 1900 some navies of older imperial power were pretty obsolete. The way the Japan crushed Russia and the US crushed Spain were mostly due to better navies not brilliant admirals.
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Old November 28th, 2011, 09:04 AM   #55

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Surely Blake deserves more than a passing mention. Even Nelson confessed that Blake was a better Admiral than he. He also detatched the idea of "Gentlemen" being in command of ships rather than skilled sailors and it was his "Fighting Instructions" that turned a collection of ships into a fleet.
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Old November 28th, 2011, 05:40 PM   #56

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Yes, although from different times, Blake did something Nelson couldn't do... maul the Spanish at (Santa Cruz de) Tenerife. Actually (General) Blake, was considered the father of the RN, and did things nobody before him had even contemplated. Blake was an innovator, reformer and tactician that brought credit to the RN all over Europe.

Nelson on the other hand, led a fleet that was already considered far and away the greatest navy afloat and despite this advantage, only had one substantial victory against ships not at anchor. That was Trafalgar over the insufficient French and Spanish fleets who for all the good her landlubber crews were to the outdated ships, may as well had been at anchor.

Whereas Blake was successful at Santa Cruz de Tenerife, Nelson's attack was a complete fiasco. The Admiralty considered Nelson a bit of a duffer (n. a peddler especially of cheap flashy articles) at the time, although upon his return Nelson's fawning public still treated him, as Wellington had suggested later he could be, like some sort of lascivious opera star.

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Jervis had expected the Union Jack to be flying over Santa Cruz and was furious when he learned about the fiasco: The Admiral apparently saw no difference between well-defended Spanish port cities such as Cadiz or Santa Cruz and the Spanish ships his squadron had beaten in February. Haughtiness and a lack of proper material and human resources for an invasion had drawn the British fleet to a painful defeat and the British never again tried to capture Santa Cruz. Nelson, however, met with a hero's welcome back in England.
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Old November 28th, 2011, 06:03 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Tuthmosis III View Post
I am inclined to agree with the 17th and 19th century picks. (I know doodly-squat about the 20th, so dare not venture an opinion.)
But why DeGrasse? Graves and Hood were rather unimaginative (fortunately for the future USA) compared to Rodney who destroyed him at the Saintes. If we must go French, why not Suffren?

I join those who would add Themistocles to the list.

I'm also impressed with Yi Sun Shin of Korea. Yes, his "turtle ships" at Myeongnyang were sort of like the CSS Virginia unleashed at Hampton Roads before the Monitor showed up. Still, that was a neat one and not his only victory.
Lysander? George of Antioch? Stephen Decatur Jr.? (Not sure he was officially an "admiral," but an interesting figure nonetheless.) Horatio Nelson?

Just thought I'd throw in a few names that stood out from my naval history class many moons ago.

I agree with Themistocles and Yi also.
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