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Old December 23rd, 2017, 12:29 AM   #31
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@ paranoid marvin
Compared to Waterloo, I think Verdun is the most important of the two, even though these two battles were equally important as myth.
I think the Battle of Verdun is more important in connection with the question posed for the following reasons:
- The number of staff employed is much higher.
- Its duration is much longer.
- It's much more bruised.
- It's vital for both sides about Verdun, but not about Waterloo (a vital issue only for the French).

That said if you think in terms of the most important battle in History in relation to each nation.
There may be that Waterloo or Trafalgar or the Somme could be considered as the most important in a purely British vision, although Hasting could be added to this list.
But I don't think that's the question asked in this topic.

In fact, I also think that even the Battle of the Marne is more important than Waterloo as well as others besides like Stalingrad or Lepanto.
kind regards,

Last edited by phil1904; December 23rd, 2017 at 12:46 AM.
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 06:58 AM   #32
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Changping. It created Han nation, the biggest nation in world.
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 10:30 PM   #33
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Rome has had a long and bloody history. This ancient civilization has experienced several great battles. One of my favorite that I think is a great battle is The Battle of Cannae, when Carthage and his army after completing a very tough land journey to Italy, defeated Roman Republic brutally.
The battle is considered the greatest battle in military tactics and one of worst defeats of Rome.
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Old December 27th, 2017, 09:16 AM   #34

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imho neither Waterloo nor Stalingrad were that important as forces larger than battle proved decisive. even if Napoleon and Hitler had won those battles that would have only delayed the inevitable defeat.

I would say Lepanto. along with the siege of Vienna it turned back the islam forces from Europe.

perhaps the defeat of the Grand Armada? a successful invasion of Britain by Spain would have profoundly changed Europe for centuries.
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Old December 27th, 2017, 09:37 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorsam View Post
imho neither Waterloo nor Stalingrad were that important as forces larger than battle proved decisive. even if Napoleon and Hitler had won those battles that would have only delayed the inevitable defeat.

I would say Lepanto. along with the siege of Vienna it turned back the islam forces from Europe.

perhaps the defeat of the Grand Armada? a successful invasion of Britain by Spain would have profoundly changed Europe for centuries.
I really dont see how Waterloo and Stalingrad (or Waterloo and Verdun as per a post above) can be compared... Waterloo is a half day battle with perhaps 200 000 men involved on a few square km.. Stalingrad is an operation lasting several months covering thousands of square km and with the involvement of millions of men

And that is the problem with the term "battle"... it covers too broad a spectrum....

My suggestion would be to reserve the term battle for a one day engagement ...(or perhaps a couple of days for rare cases) And use the term operation for the likes of Stalingrad, Verdun etc...
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Old December 27th, 2017, 10:48 AM   #36
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Why would you do that?
A battle is an armed clash of indeterminate duration.
The fact that some battles lasted weeks or months doesn't mean that they can't be classified as battles.
Judging by the dictionary definition:

Cambridge
battle
noun[ C] UK / bęt. l/ US / bęt l/.
Battle name[ C] (FIGHT)
B1 a fight between armed forces:
Example: The Battle of the Somme

Oxford
battle
NOUN
1. A sustained fight between the large organized armed forces.
Examples:
The battle lasted several hours.
in the names."The battle of Waterloo."

Merriam-Webster
Definition of battle
3: a general encounter between armies, ships of war, or aircraft
Example:
the battle of Normandy

As you can see the definitions are pretty clear.
I don't think we can use the term skirmishes or wars instead of battle to refer to Verdun or the Dardanelles.
Why make a difference when the most famous remain in the collective memory as a battle?
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Old December 27th, 2017, 11:13 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phil1904 View Post
Why would you do that?
A battle is an armed clash of indeterminate duration.
The fact that some battles lasted weeks or months doesn't mean that they can't be classified as battles.
Judging by the dictionary definition:

Cambridge
battle
noun[ C] UK / bęt. l/ US / bęt l/.
Battle name[ C] (FIGHT)
B1 a fight between armed forces:
Example: The Battle of the Somme

Oxford
battle
NOUN
1. A sustained fight between the large organized armed forces.
Examples:
The battle lasted several hours.
in the names."The battle of Waterloo."

Merriam-Webster
Definition of battle
3: a general encounter between armies, ships of war, or aircraft
Example:
the battle of Normandy

As you can see the definitions are pretty clear.
I don't think we can use the term skirmishes or wars instead of battle to refer to Verdun or the Dardanelles.
Why make a difference when the most famous remain in the collective memory as a battle?
because its comparing apples to oranges

I have the same problem with the term "country"...

it makes very little sense to compare a continent size "country" such as the US or China to Luxembourg or Togo..... just because they are all named "country"....

to me this is simply a limitation of our language that , for simplicity sake, bundles different concepts into one word.... at the same time look at how many words we have to describe the concept of furniture on which we sit "chair" , "armchair", "sofa", "stool" etc.. etc....

but hey, this is my own opinion

Still it makes little sense to compare a medieval battle between a few knights to a mammoth operation like Stalingrad
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Old December 27th, 2017, 11:27 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicHistory360 View Post
The battle at Thermopylae, part of the Greco-Persian Wars, it had unimaginably huge effects on Western culture.
How ?
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Old December 27th, 2017, 02:14 PM   #39

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There are some great battles listed. Here's one that has not, and I believe it captures the essence of the OP, thus warranting attention: The Battle of Vienna, 1683.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vienna

One man's explanation of its importance:
Turning the Ottoman Tide - John III Sobieski at Vienna 1683 | HistoryNet
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Old December 27th, 2017, 02:40 PM   #40
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Battle of Hastings - its outcome was the most influential in European history from a day's fighting.
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