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Old December 22nd, 2011, 03:58 AM   #21

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With regards to the bigger picture it was a rather unimportant sideshow for allied and axis, Patton had no major role other than a brief interlude which has been overplayed by Hollywood.
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Old December 22nd, 2011, 04:30 AM   #22

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Originally Posted by irishcrusader95 View Post
it tied up a lot of german forces and resources which would have been better employed on the eastern front, while the forces in africa only consisted of a single corps but the constant replacements and supplies that were sent there was a wast on objectives that would achieve them little even if the did reach the Suez canal. its importance for the british is that it gave them a victory which they sorely needed for the many let downs of the past few years and gave there army much needed combat experience making them better prepared for the invasions of mainland europe.
There were 3 Pz Division(10th,15th and 21st) and two infantry divisions (90th and 164th Light-Africa).

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Originally Posted by Giraffe View Post
Rommel landed in Lybia, which was 'owned' by Italy at the time, and was not the Oil producer it is now. He attacked from El Agheila, (SE corner of the Gulf of Sirte) and drove the British back to Egyptian Border. There were several 'to and fro' attacks from each side, before Montgomery finally defeated him at El Alamein in Oct 42. The US & British forces landed in Morocco in Nov, and came up behind him from the other side, so he was eventually surrounded in Tunisia.

Rommel's biggest problem was supplies - his came across the Mediterranean in ships, which were hit very hard by the British submarines and aircraft based in Malta.

The strategic aim was to drive through Egypt to the Gulf, to get the Oil, and (possibly) join up with the other thrust, via Russia through Iran. Russia had a lot of oil in the south, near Baku, (still have!) which the Germans also came close to, but never captured, due to the counter attack that resulted in Stalingrad.
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Originally Posted by beetle View Post
Just some trivia. During the North African campaigns, Rommel became convinced there was a traitor among the Italian general staff because so many supply ships were being sunk. There was no traitor. It was Ultra. The Brits had cracked the German secret codes and knew when and where the supply ships were sailing.

The fall of Trobruk prompted FDR to attempt to provide much more aid to the Brits, despite the isolationist Congress.

As Hapsburg Austria proved to be more of a burden than an ally for Germany in WW I, so too did Italy in WW II. The Nazi regime constantly had to rescue Mussolini's attempts at aggrandizement.
Again with the legend of supplies?
Between 1940 and 1943 Regia Marina carried out 189.162 men of Italian Army,Navy and Airforce and of Afrika Korps on 206.492 men who left(91,6 % of all)
Were carried out 476.703 tons of fuel on 599.337 (80 % of total)
243.633 tons of vehicles and repairing pieces on 275.310 (88 % of total)
149.462 tons of ammo and weapons on 170.060 (88 % of total)
1.060.157 tons of other supplies on 1.200.673 (86 % of total)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl_of_Rochester View Post
With regards to the bigger picture it was a rather unimportant sideshow for allied and axis, Patton had no major role other than a brief interlude which has been overplayed by Hollywood.
Agree.
British and Commonwealth did the majority of hard work.
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Old December 22nd, 2011, 04:35 AM   #23

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giraffe View Post
Rommel landed in Lybia, which was 'owned' by Italy at the time, and was not the Oil producer it is now. He attacked from El Agheila, (SE corner of the Gulf of Sirte) and drove the British back to Egyptian Border. There were several 'to and fro' attacks from each side, before Montgomery finally defeated him at El Alamein in Oct 42. The US & British forces landed in Morocco in Nov, and came up behind him from the other side, so he was eventually surrounded in Tunisia.

Rommel's biggest problem was supplies - his came across the Mediterranean in ships, which were hit very hard by the British submarines and aircraft based in Malta.

The strategic aim was to drive through Egypt to the Gulf, to get the Oil, and (possibly) join up with the other thrust, via Russia through Iran. Russia had a lot of oil in the south, near Baku, (still have!) which the Germans also came close to, but never captured, due to the counter attack that resulted in Stalingrad.
German supply problems became so bad that at the very end of the campaign, U-boats were kicking barrels of fuel into the water at night to drift in on the tide.
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