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Old January 22nd, 2012, 01:43 PM   #771
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P.S. Obviously, I'm a newbie and am doing something incorrectly.
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Old January 22nd, 2012, 01:43 PM   #772
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What. Did i say that. We are discussing which countries the SU and Germany invaded during the time of the None aggression pact. The only COUNTRY invaded by both during the time of the pact was Poland.

really, is it that hard. Am i not typeing in English or somthing.

No, that is NOT what we are "discussing" You said the Soviet Union and Germany never had an alliance. We have had everything from other countries and the Falklands from you. Poland is a country that Germany and the Soviet Union agreed to invade and carve up together. This is an alliance.
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Old January 22nd, 2012, 01:46 PM   #773
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P.S. Obviously, I'm a newbie and am doing something incorrectly.
Welcome to the forum JL. Just kick back and chuck your two cents in when you feel like it. Try not to get heated if you are goaded by anyone.
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Old January 22nd, 2012, 01:59 PM   #774
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Bish Says.
Yes, but they were not Allies when they invaded these countries, if theyb were Allies at all. Which i don't except they were.
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Old January 22nd, 2012, 02:08 PM   #775

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Heres a question for you. In 1982, when the UK went to war with Argentina over the falklands, did that also mean that the USA, Germany, canada and all the other members of NATO also go to war with Argentina.
The NATO alliance calls for members to provide mutual support and regard an attack on one as an attack on all. HOWEVER NATO's area of operation is only above the Tropic of Cancer. As it happens, most members of NATO with the exception of Italy provided some kind of support.
Coming to the aid of another member Nation is technically voluntary because what would happen if Turkey and Greece had a go at each other as has nearly happened a dozen times?
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Old January 22nd, 2012, 02:25 PM   #776
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The NATO alliance calls for members to provide mutual support and regard an attack on one as an attack on all. HOWEVER NATO's area of operation is only above the Tropic of Cancer. As it happens, most members of NATO with the exception of Italy provided some kind of support.
Coming to the aid of another member Nation is technically voluntary because what would happen if Turkey and Greece had a go at each other as has nearly happened a dozen times?


That would take care of Greece's debt problems.
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Old January 22nd, 2012, 10:17 PM   #777
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Up until the day the Soviet Union was invaded by Germany, the Soviet Union was shipping raw materials, munitions, and even food (with some of the Soviets starving) into Germany.
Shipping for free? Actually it was trading, in exchange Germany was providing engineering tools, manufacture machines and other industrial facilities to the USSR which were very vital for the Soviet industry. And according to your own words, trading before war is ok, that's what u said about the United States trading with Germany though some corporations from US were trading with them even during the war but it's another story. So I don't understand what you imply writing this for the second time.
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Old January 23rd, 2012, 07:07 AM   #778
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Shipping for free? Actually it was trading, in exchange Germany was providing engineering tools, manufacture machines and other industrial facilities to the USSR which were very vital for the Soviet industry. And according to your own words, trading before war is ok, that's what u said about the United States trading with Germany though some corporations from US were trading with them even during the war but it's another story. So I don't understand what you imply writing this for the second time.

It was part of my effort to indicate that Stalin had no idea he was about to be attacked at that moment in history. Do try to keep up.
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Old January 23rd, 2012, 08:13 AM   #779

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I guess the term alliance conjures up notions of the two countries being allies. The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact did have secret protocols dividing Poland and other Eastern European countries belween Soviet and Nazi forces, that have been called an alliance. The Soviets did assist the Nazis in some communications. They even organized a joint march through Brest after concluding their respective invasions. However I doubt they fought side by side as traditional allies. However if there is evidence of this, please give me your references, I am very interested.

As for Stalin having no idea when the Nazis were invading.. well he had plenty of warning and knew it was going to happen. His primary concerns were to rebuild his military after purging it of most senior officers, so he stalled for time. What else was he going to do? He needed time and Hitler apparently gave him just enough time with that Pact.

Stalin knew that the single biggest determinant of survival was to be the battle for Moscow. Here he could afford to lose horrendous numbers of men to slow down the Nazi advance, because the Japanese had released his million strong Siberians for service in the East, when they attacked Pearl. Stalin knew then that the Japanese could not afford to invade the Soviet Union.

Part of the reason why the Soviets had to do more than anyone else, had to sacrifice more, was because they had the greatest forces amassed against them and were in many ways the least prepared.

Last edited by rehabnonono; January 23rd, 2012 at 08:23 AM.
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Old January 23rd, 2012, 12:48 PM   #780
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I guess the term alliance conjures up notions of the two countries being allies. The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact did have secret protocols dividing Poland and other Eastern European countries belween Soviet and Nazi forces, that have been called an alliance. The Soviets did assist the Nazis in some communications. They even organized a joint march through Brest after concluding their respective invasions. However I doubt they fought side by side as traditional allies. However if there is evidence of this, please give me your references, I am very interested.

So allies must fight side by side to be traditional? Were the Germans and Japanese traditional allies.

As for Stalin having no idea when the Nazis were invading.. well he had plenty of warning and knew it was going to happen. His primary concerns were to rebuild his military after purging it of most senior officers, so he stalled for time. What else was he going to do? He needed time and Hitler apparently gave him just enough time with that Pact.


Who claimed Stalin had no idea when they were invading? I think when 120 divisions of armor and infantry cross your border it's a pretty good clue. He obviously never knew exactly when given Soviet trainloads of goodies heading into Germany the days prior. Stalin was told several times that invasion was immanent. He knew better than everyone though.

Stalin knew that the single biggest determinant of survival was to be the battle for Moscow. Here he could afford to lose horrendous numbers of men to slow down the Nazi advance, because the Japanese had released his million strong Siberians for service in the East, when they attacked Pearl. Stalin knew then that the Japanese could not afford to invade the Soviet Union.


It was actually 40 divisions of hard men.

Part of the reason why the Soviets had to do more than anyone else, had to sacrifice more, was because they had the greatest forces amassed against them and were in many ways the least prepared.

That's part of it. They sure made up for lost time.

Blood.
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