rehabnonono

Nations are like companies, they don't have friends, they have interests. If the interests run parallel then they become closer. The Soviets were one big business operation, much bigger than say Standard Oil (the Rockerfeller Family) or the the Ford family or even GM who all did business with the Nazis and indeed even part owned by Nazis.

antonina

So how do you interpret all that went beyond that?

antonina

Yes, it stank. Just like employing Nazis by NASA after the war, and doing business with "respectable" German comapanies that build up their capital on producing eg. Aushwitz ovens. Cynicism is a truly international phenomenon.

jdghgh

I think this is a good perspective to take regarding politics. One could argue that politics is simply the business of nation building. It's refreshing at least, if not a little simplistic.

Edward

After WWI and Peace of Versailles, there were only two major countries in Europe which were not happy with the Treaty. These countries were Soviet Union and Germany. Their Empires were divided with big territorial losses. These countries seek every opportunity to redraw Versailles Map of Europe. This filling was much older than Nazism, the revisionism in Germany and Soviet Union emerged imminently after the Great War and Domestic war in Russia was concluded. Treaty of Rapallo between Russian socialist Republic and Weimar Germany was signed in April 1922 and was followed by treaty of Berlin in October 1926. From these treaties some military cooperation began including training of pilots and other military cooperation forbidden In Germany by Treaty of Versailles.
Soviet Union and Germany, despite their ideological differences were natural allies in their revisionism and desire to rid of Versailles restrictions.

rehabnonono

You know what they say... Back both sides in the war, it's only business. Poland was just business Antonina, you know? It had been going on since Teddy Roosevelt threw all the big cartels out of the US and in doing so unleashed them on the world.

Check it out... he's the spook's lawyer
The Bush-Rockefeller-Dulles-Harriman Nazi scandal by John Loftus Federal Prosecutor

As a former Justice Department prosecutor, John Loftus once held some of the highest security clearances in the world, with special access to NATO Cosmic, CIA codeword, and Top Secret Nuclear files. As a private attorney, he works without charge to help hundreds of intelligence agents obtain lawful permission to declassify and publish the hidden secrets of our times. He is the author of four history books, three of which have been made into films, two were international best sellers, and one was nominated for the Pulitzer Prize.

As a young U.S. Army officer, John Loftus helped train Israelis on a covert operation that turned the tide of battle in the 1973 Yom Kippur War. During the Carter and Reagan Administrations, he investigated CIA cases and Nazi War Criminals for the Attorney General of the United States. In 1982, his "60 Minutes" expose of Nazis on the US government payroll won the Emmy Award for outstanding investigative journalism.
John Loftus: former justice department prosecutor and nazis hunter

arras

Alliance is active support of your partner. As I said, Soviets and Germans just agreed on lines of their conquests as not to get in to conflict. Germans were not supporting Soviets when they invaded Finland or annexed Baltic states. And Soviets did not support Germans when they invaded Poland.

What they did was to define what is German garden and what is Soviet garden and not to cross in to gardens of each other.

Linschoten

Yes, I'd accept that.

arras

There was nothing what went beyond, they just made sure they do not come in to conflict over their expansion. Because it was not in their interest at that time.

But both Soviets and Germans knew they will fight each other sooner or later. National Socialists did not made their hatred of Communists secret and vice versa. Hitler was also quit open when writing his book about "Eastern territories" and savages living there.

They fought each other in Spain.

There was no question if Soviets and Germans can be friends or allies. They could not.

I said it few times before: what was going on before WWII was that everybody knew Germans under Hitler are going to war. Question was against whom. Brits wanted Germans to go to war in the East and fight Communists. That is why they sacrificed Czechoslovakia and let Hitler destroy Poland while they were drinking tea on the borders of Belgium and Holland. (sorry Linschoten)

French had no other option but to side with British because they could not fight Germans alone. They were scared by Germans like hell after what happened in WWI. Their original strategy was alliance with Central European countries like Czechoslovakia and Poland. They signed even alliance with Soviets. But after German rearmament, reoccupation of Rhineland and anschluss of Austria this strategy was probably found impossible. So they sided with Brits out of necessity.

Soviets of course saw what is coming, Stalin was anything but stupid. They were preparing for new war since revolution like mad, they knew they do not have time. They seems to try at first to make alliance with West (like their alliance with French and Czechoslovakia). But Brits did not sign. So at first Soviets were in pretty bad situation. Seeing that, they happily signed non-aggression with Hitler when it was possible, completely reversing the situation.

USA on their part were looking forward to another war on Old Continent, making profit by deals with all the sides, building German industry, selling automobile designs to Soviets and obsolete planes to French and Brits.

To sum it up what was going on in Europe before WWII was diplomatic game in anticipation of new big war. And name of coming war was where two fights, third one wins. And fourth (USA) makes profit.

Germany and Hitler was given role of the fool who will start the war and who will as a consequence loose right from the start. Question was who will be second looser and who will be third to win. Game was played mainly between Brits and Soviets.

At the end however not everything went exactly according to the plan. Hitler turned out to be much more clever and capable than he seemed (lunatic and pub orator) and nearly spoiled whole game by bold unpredictable moves. First he went East, swallowing Austria, Czechoslovakia and Poland. So far so good. But then he signed pact with Soviets and suddenly turned West wiping table with surprised Brits and French. He did it so fast that it surprised Soviets on the other side which expected repeat of WWI on the Western front by that time. Like this Hitler caught them with their pants down when he suddenly turned his army at the Channel 180 degrees once more and marched direction of Moscow.

Bye that time even those in Washington must have been scared because they started talking war and thinking how to sell it to their isolationistic public.

At the end USA, Brits and Soviets were forced to sign uneasy alliance just to survive. Hitler nearly spoiled whole game. And so when dust settled, result was far from planed ...and so welcome to the Cold War.

Pavel

Sometimes, I just cannot deal with my temper. In my opinion, nationalism is the second most disgusting thing on the planet after religion. Nationalists don't love their homeland, they love own perverse, embellished with made up details and facts, perception of history. Secondly, I have read those posts entirely. (Indeed, I found out that trade in rye ,oat ,barley played the most crucial role in the first two years of the WWII) Thirdly, "The fact that USSR didn't participate directly in the British and French campaign doesn't in the least change this.!". Really, such a petty fact! It has nothing to do with alliance.(oat and barley do!)