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May 16th, 2012, 09:57 PM
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#31 | | Historian
Joined: Apr 2011 From: Melbourne Australia Posts: 1,461 |
Max Immelmann, "The Eagle of Lille" was a friend of Boelke and like him flew the Fokker E III. Earlier I discussed the difficulty in calling someone an "ace" because of the variability of the aircraft and conditions. The E III was not a great plane, even by the standards of the day. I believe it wa a close copy of the Moraine Saulnier Bullet and Anthony Fokker was a great self publicist and not above stealing ideas. The E III was up against the DH 2 Gunbus and the Neiuport II but had two great advantages. The first and most obvious was it mounted a Spandau machine gun capable of firing 500 rounds without reload. The Entente had been caught flat footed and their pilots had Lewis guns mounted on fairly shaky mounts and being fed with a drum holding 47 rounds. Not an easy thing therefore to have to break off and reload in the middle of a fight. The second was the interrupter gear allowed the gun to fire through the prop. So would Boelke and Immelmann have been so successful under other circumstances? The answer is possibly yes. I've mentioned the Dicta Boelke as the earliest manual of aerial combat. The Immelmann turn may or may not have been invented by him. It is a defensive manoevre with an enemy on one's tail. Basically it's a half loop. Go intio the loop and half way through, when you are facing in the opposite direction you roll out of the loop and so you are at a different height and heading in the opposite direction.
Immelmann's death is controversial. What is know is his plane broke up in flight. The British claimed he had been shot down and the Germans said it was structural failure. He did not die in a "flamer."
The issue of parachutes was a sore point. I have heard the story it was because the Brits wanted the pilot to Return If Possible. They believed so and there is the wry song "The Dying Airman" to back it up.
Just a small expansion on firing through the prop. The first to use it was the Frenchman Roland Garros. He fitted deflector wedges to his prop. Brave man.
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May 17th, 2012, 02:04 AM
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#32 | | Idiot of the year 2011
Joined: Mar 2008 From: Damned England Posts: 6,294 |
Werner Voss was almost certainly the best flier. James McCudden remarked that: Quote: |
His flying was wonderful, his courage magnificent and in my opinion he was the bravest German airman whom it has been my privilege to see fight." Lieutenant Arthur Rhys-Davids, who himself would fall in combat just one month later, had said to McCudden, "If I could only have brought him down alive."
| Voss died in combat with 6 SE5A's of the elite No 56 squadron, containing several aces. He put holes in just about every British plane.
He was just 20 years old when he died.
Von Richtofen was an excellent tactician and shot, but rather a poor pilot who frowned upon aerobatics and other trick flying. For him, air combat was more like wild boar hunting, something he did a lot of.
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May 17th, 2012, 04:26 AM
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#33 | | vincit omnia veritas
Joined: Feb 2011 From: England Posts: 4,002 | Quote:
Originally Posted by viking The Immelmann turn may or may not have been invented by him. It is a defensive manoevre with an enemy on one's tail. Basically it's a half loop. Go intio the loop and half way through, when you are facing in the opposite direction you roll out of the loop and so you are at a different height and heading in the opposite direction. | The thing is when you mention The Immelmann turn people think of this
But in WWI because of the flimsy nature of the planes the turn was actually this
Which left the plane rather vulnerable half way through the turn.
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May 17th, 2012, 07:25 AM
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#34 | | Historian
Joined: Jan 2010 From: Eugene, Oregon Posts: 1,768 |
The best effect of the Zeppelin was it forced Britain to maintain a homeland defense, keeping the defenders out of battles fought else where. The biggest draw back is they cost 5 times as much to make as the damage they did. But when used over waters to know where the ships were, I am betting they gave Germans an edge, making it possible for the Germans to pick their naval engagements, and keeping shipping lanes open was very important.
Over the time of the war ammunition evolved. Bombs and bullets could do more damage. Before this, bullets couldn't hurt the Zeppelin, and you couldn't drop a bomb on one. The Zeppelin was well defended with armor and machine gunners, until later on when the armor was removed to fly higher.
Towards the end of war, Germany did not have enough man power to replace the Zeppelins and mysteriously several were destroyed in the yard where they were parked. Also they were being replaced by better built bombers. First World War.com - The War in the Air - Bombers: Germany, Zeppelins | | |
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May 17th, 2012, 07:44 AM
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#35 | | Historian
Joined: Jan 2010 From: Eugene, Oregon Posts: 1,768 |
Here is a fun video of a model DH.4 plane, that kind gives a person a feel for the air warfare. The next link is an explanation of the plane. Royals Royce built the best engine for the DH.4. This gives us an idea of the technology being developed at the time, and how it was converted for military purposes and after the war, converted again to civilian use, like carrying mail. Anyone remember the higher priced air mail stamp? I wish I had kept some.
Whoops, I just noticed the video says it is the only US built plane to fly in the war, but the plane is British design, and then made in the US. Airco DH.4 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | | |
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May 21st, 2012, 04:10 PM
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#36 | | Historian
Joined: Apr 2011 From: Melbourne Australia Posts: 1,461 |
The Immelmann and the modified Immelmann you show, has an important flaw in combat. Pulling back the nose to climb does two things. The aeroplane slows down and, being in plan form in the view of the following opponent it actually becomes a bigger target.
It is most likely the manoevre was used as a passing shot where, having swooped, you want to turn back towards the target, such as a balloon.
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Last edited by viking; May 21st, 2012 at 05:57 PM.
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May 30th, 2012, 10:52 AM
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#37 | | Historian
Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 1,155 |
Great series based on the early days of the RFC, I think you can get it on DVD | | |
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May 30th, 2012, 10:40 PM
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#38 | | Academician
Joined: Jan 2012 From: French Kingdom Posts: 96 | Quote:
Originally Posted by tjadams I've read that a lot of WWI buffs picked the S.E.5a or the Sopwith Camel as the two,
overall, best fighters of the war. But of course the Fokker DR1 is right up there as was 
the French Spad VII (S7) as at least the top ten best. | ...on which french pilot Rene Fonck, ace of aces on allied side performed many of his kills or on its upgraded versions Spad XII-gun and Spad XIII which were among the best fighters of the war. It completed replaced the Nieuport around 1917.
Other french aces like Guynemer especially used it.
The Spad VII was even produced in England but the lines of production were poorer than the french ones and the plane was unfortunately more fragile.
Italy, Russia, Belgium, United States also were equipped with it.
Even...some German pilots used it, like Rudolph Windisch.
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May 30th, 2012, 11:01 PM
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#39 | | Historian
Joined: Apr 2011 From: Melbourne Australia Posts: 1,461 |
The Spad in the right hands was a fine plane. The Hispano Suiza engine was great, it was a very sturdy plane at a time when some other planes could shed wings in a dive. It was not manoeverable so it relied on diving on the enemy and regaining height quickly. As height is advantage, in the right hands, it was a formidable opponent especially when it received the upgraded engine and twin machine guns. One big disadvantage was the top wing could easily obscure vision.
It was available from fairly early in the war and was contemporary with the Nieuport 17C. Nieuport produced the N28 which Rickenbacker flew but that Nieuport was inferior to the Spad and was gradually phased out.
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May 31st, 2012, 02:02 AM
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#40 | | Historian
Joined: Feb 2012 Posts: 1,309 | Quote:
Originally Posted by viking The Immelmann and the modified Immelmann you show, has an important flaw in combat. Pulling back the nose to climb does two things. The aeroplane slows down and, being in plan form in the view of the following opponent it actually becomes a bigger target.
It is most likely the manoevre was used as a passing shot where, having swooped, you want to turn back towards the target, such as a balloon. | The manoever was best used on an opponent who thought he had you. As for presenting a plan view to your pursuer, that isn't necessarily the case, as the pursuer will be moving forward as the target pulls up and over, and since human reaction (and the limits of WW1 manoeverability at the time the immelmann turn was popularised) is not instantaneous, there's every possibility of the pursuer looking up at the target aeroplane as he zipps by underneath, thus no plan form is seen. In any case, the advantage to the pursuer is only available if the plan form falls within his arc of fire (and attendent direction of travel).
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