What were the Elementary causes of WW2? - Page 21 - Historum

**beorna** · May 23rd, 2012, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elena

And I want to know what FACTS, and not propaganda mantras, testify to that.

Please, answer: who occupied Poland since 1945?

If Warsaw Pact is a sign of occupation, does it mean that NATO is also a sign of occupation? In this case, do you consider Poland to be occupied by the US now?

If being in one's sphere of political and economic influence constitute occupation; does it mean France, UK, Italy, Germany, Spain, Greece were occupied by the US in 1945 and now continue to live under US occupation?

It is obvious, that Poland was "occupied" by a communist Polish party, installed with help of the Red Army, there was a partisan war in Poland till 1949 if I am correct, and with the support of the UB and others, ruled by Soviets.

Diced · May 23rd, 2012, 11:37 AM

I was sure the second world war started earlier than NATO, 1949 and communist occupation or liberation of Poland... Or was there some weird time warp I missed :P

lemage · May 23rd, 2012, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beorna

First of all, I hope, Lemage, you have seen that I was joking?

The NATO is based on the treaty of brussels, not of Paris. It was an alliance, originally against a new german aggression, but changed very soon in an ally against the threat of the Soviet Union. In the treaty of Paris in 1955 germany was invited into these ally.
The warsaw pact was installed as reaction of the accession of the FRG and the treaty of Paris. In 1955 none of the countries of the warsaw pact was free. But I doubt, that the UK or France were not free as well, or the Benelux. Poland after the cold war joined the US to be safe of Russian aggressions like in the Balticum or the Caucasus.

I realize that now. I've been dealing with a lot of idiots recently so I apologize.

**beorna** · May 23rd, 2012, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elena

Bish!

Take a look:

The Elections to the Polish Parliament 8/15.9.1935 (free pre-war Poland!): Bezpartyjny Blok Wsólpracy z Rzadem; bezpartyjni. (2 parties)

The Elections to the Polish Parliament 6/13.11.1938 (free pre-war Poland!): Obóz Zjednoczenia Narodowego; bezpartyjni (2 parties)

The Elections to the Polish Parliament 19.1.1947 (under the yoke of the Russkis!): Blok Demokratyczny; Polska Partia Robotnicza; Polska Partia Socjalistyczna; Stronnictwo Ludowe; Stronnitctwo Demokratyczne; bezpartyjni; Polskie Stronnictwo Ludowe; Stronnitctwo Pracy; Polskie Stronnitctwo Ludowe-Nowe Wyzwolenie; Grupy katolicko (9 parties, including a religious one!)

What an oppression! I am outraged! Those commies! Errr… where are they, btw? Can you find me "Communist Party" on that electoral list?

Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh, I just thought to myself, when will she mention, that there were several different parties in the paliament. OMG, what a BS. I am not so well informed about the Polish system, but best informed about those of the GDR, which was similar. The SED had never the majority of votes in these parliament. A true democraty? No, of course not. The SED held just 127 of 500 seats and the CDU, LDPD, NDPD and DBD 208, but the DBD was founded by the SED.And there were as well 68 seats for the SED controlled FDGB (union organisation), 40 seats for the SED youth organisation FDJ. And there were the DFD and the KB with together 57 seats, both controlled by the SED. All parties were united in the National Front. So even if 100% had voted for the NDPD candidates, the SED would get 127 seats and the NDPD only 52.
And of course there was not only the Volkskammer, but as well the Ministerrat and the Politbüro of the SED, which held the real power, based on the weapons of the NVA and mainly the Red Army.

**beorna** · May 23rd, 2012, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemage

I realize that now. I've been dealing with a lot of idiots recently so I apologize.

no problem.

**Bish** · May 23rd, 2012, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemage

I realize that now. I've been dealing with a lot of idiots recently so I apologize.

I know what you mean. It can have a strange effect.

Elena · May 23rd, 2012, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bish

So why are in in my country.

Because YOUR country chose to destroy MY country.

**Bish** · May 23rd, 2012, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elena

Because YOUR country chose to destroy MY country.

And which would be your country.

Elena · May 23rd, 2012, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemage

a coalition between the socialist and communists..........

As I said: it was not a "communist party", but a COALITION OF PARTIES.

And what is your problem with accepting that after the war Poles supported the parties that organised the resistance, instead of some "Polish government from London" that put Poles under Hitler and run to London for personal safety abandoning the nation?

Elena · May 23rd, 2012, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrzej

good game made by Stalin's propaganda, that the injury did not you write that most of these parti activists were killed after 1948.

Actually, I took the data from POLISH source.

What "party activists" were killed in 1948, and why did Poles choose to kill them?