 | | War and Military History War and Military History Forum - Warfare, Tactics, and Military Technology over the centuries |
May 18th, 2012, 04:52 PM
|
#1 | | Historian
Joined: Mar 2010 From: USA Posts: 4,310 | Warsaw Rising: Hope and Betrayal | | |
| |
May 18th, 2012, 05:28 PM
|
#2 | | Suspended indefinitely
Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 870 |
The Red Army needed time to regroup after the privious fighting; and they were not about to take on Warsaw in frontal attack. That bit was conveyed to the Polish government in London and ignored.
The reason for fiasco with Warsaw uprising was as simple as it can get: Polish arrogance and hatred for Russians: POLISH command in London ignored Stalin's advice and his warning that the Red Army was in no position to support the uprising at the time POLISH government in London wanted to start it. The reason POLISH government in London made its descision to begin the uprising was: they didn't want the Soviets in Poland and thought they can pull it off by themselves.
But when Warsaw uprising PREDICTABLY turned into disaster, Poles blamed the Soviets for not coming to their aid!
Poles are like a baptised Jew in a bathhouse: either take off your cross, or put on your pants.
Either Stalin was their enemy and Poles didn't want the Soviets in Poland, or they were relying on Stalin to help them.
One or the other.
| | |
| |
May 18th, 2012, 06:08 PM
|
#3 | | Historian
Joined: Mar 2010 From: USA Posts: 4,310 |
Exactly what else were the Poles in exile supposed to do? Besides the Red Army gave messages urging the Poles and other people under occupation to rise up.
| | |
| |
May 18th, 2012, 06:20 PM
|
#4 | | Suspended indefinitely
Joined: Nov 2009 From: Queensland, Australia Posts: 3,760 | Quote:
Originally Posted by Elena The Red Army needed time to regroup after the privious fighting; and they were not about to take on Warsaw in frontal attack. That bit was conveyed to the Polish government in London and ignored.
The reason for fiasco with Warsaw uprising was as simple as it can get: Polish arrogance and hatred for Russians: POLISH command in London ignored Stalin's advice and his warning that the Red Army was in no position to support the uprising at the time POLISH government in London wanted to start it. The reason POLISH government in London made its descision to begin the uprising was: they didn't want the Soviets in Poland and thought they can pull it off by themselves.
But when Warsaw uprising PREDICTABLY turned into disaster, Poles blamed the Soviets for not coming to their aid!
Poles are like a baptised Jew in a bathhouse: either take off your cross, or put on your pants.
Either Stalin was their enemy and Poles didn't want the Soviets in Poland, or they were relying on Stalin to help them.
One or the other. | Wanda Radio Station ( Radiostacja Wanda) was a broadcast station during the . Created in 1944, the Wanda Radio Station was attached to the units fighting on the Eastern Front. It operated daily, broadcasting news, lectures, and recorded Polish songs.[1] Before the the broadcasts vowed for an armed uprising to be started in Warsaw in order to ease the crossing of the river by the . However, after the Uprising did break out the station halted all broadcasts and started to play music only. Polish 1st army commander, gen. Zygmunt Berling was removed from command after he has sent one battalion of his army across Vistula River to help Warsaw Uprising. (1st army was a Polish army created from Poles deported by Soviets to Siberia in 1939/1940 as well as enlisted men from eastern Poland conscripted in 1944 after Red Army reconquered this part of Poland. It was largely manned by officers of Russian origin). Stalin prohibited allied bomber to supply weapon to Uprising by shuttle flight from England with air drop then land on Soviet controlled airstrips east of Warsaw for refilling. The intension was obvious. | |
Last edited by Edward; May 18th, 2012 at 06:52 PM.
|
| |
May 18th, 2012, 06:22 PM
|
#5 | | Lecturer
Joined: May 2012 From: In the Land of Russia where the Shadows lie Posts: 358 |
Who betrayed whom,I wonder? Look Polish Wikipedia : the revolt was directed against two enemies. weakened by the war retreating Germans were one of the enemies. And they openly name Soviets their political enemies.So what they would have to expect ?
| | |
| |
May 18th, 2012, 07:11 PM
|
#6 | | Suspended indefinitely
Joined: Nov 2009 From: Queensland, Australia Posts: 3,760 | Quote:
Originally Posted by General Winter Who betrayed whom,I wonder? Look Polish Wikipedia : the revolt was directed against two enemies. weakened by the war retreating Germans were one of the enemies. And they openly name Soviets their political enemies.So what they would have to expect ? | Independent Poland. stalin obviously had a different plan. Polish underground fall into his trap bud did they have any other option? The uprising will start anyway as the common soldiers of Polish underground (Both London and Moscow controlled) were so inpatient that any small event will ignite spontaneous rebellion against German occupier. this could end in bigger disaster than organized military action. | |
Last edited by Edward; May 18th, 2012 at 07:21 PM.
|
| |
May 19th, 2012, 12:11 AM
|
#7 | | Historian
Joined: Nov 2011 From: Raetia Posts: 1,184 |
I have no detailed knowledge of the Soviet non-intervention in Warsaw. But after the huge, demanding success of Operation Bagration, it would be fully understandable that Soviet troops needed to regenerate and secure new supply lines. And the final breakthrough through German lines was not made until January 1945. I don't think that Stalin would have waited so long if it had been possible to end the war earlier.
How do Poles today judge the Warsaw uprising? Would it have been better in hindsight not to engage in a senseless bloodshed, thereby saving the city of Warsaw from destruction, and saving a generation of Poles who later could have participated in the reconstruction of the Polish state? Or was the uprising necessary as a symbol of sacrifice for Poland's freedom and independence?
| | |
| |
May 19th, 2012, 12:23 AM
|
#8 | | αἰὲν ἀριστεύειν
Joined: Jan 2010 From: Lower Saxony Posts: 10,400 | Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Wanda Radio Station (Polish Radiostacja Wanda) was a SovietPolish languagepropaganda broadcast station during the World War II. Created in 1944, the Wanda Radio Station was attached to the Red Army units fighting on the Eastern Front. It operated daily, broadcasting news, lectures, and recorded Polish songs.[1] Before the Warsaw Uprising the broadcasts vowed for an armed uprising to be started in Warsaw in order to ease the crossing of the Vistula river by the Red Army. However, after the Uprising did break out the station halted all broadcasts and started to play music only. Wanda Radio Station - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Polish 1st army commander, gen. Zygmunt Berling was removed from command after he has sent one battalion of his army across Vistula River to help Warsaw Uprising. (1st army was a Polish army created from Poles deported by Soviets to Siberia in 1939/1940 as well as enlisted men from eastern Poland conscripted in 1944 after Red Army reconquered this part of Poland. It was largely manned by officers of Russian origin). Stalin prohibited allied bomber to supply weapon to Uprising by shuttle flight from England with air drop then land on Soviet controlled airstrips east of Warsaw for refilling. The intension was obvious. | Berling was removed in october, his offensiv, supported by Soviet artillery and aircrafts, was cancelled by him on 23rd of september.
| | |
| |
May 19th, 2012, 12:30 AM
|
#9 | | Historian
Joined: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,342 | Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimald I have no detailed knowledge of the Soviet non-intervention in Warsaw. But after the huge, demanding success of Operation Bagration, it would be fully understandable that Soviet troops needed to regenerate and secure new supply lines. And the final breakthrough through German lines was not made until January 1945. I don't think that Stalin would have waited so long if it had been possible to end the war earlier. | Still doesn't explain the Soviet outright refusal to allow the use of airfields in their control by the British and Americans to try to supply the uprising by airdrops.
Stalin already had unilaterally withdrawn recognition of the Polish government in exile in London. It still had the support of the US and UK, but who could do nothing if the Soviets shut them out.
| | |
| |
May 19th, 2012, 12:44 AM
|
#10 | | Historian
Joined: Nov 2011 From: Raetia Posts: 1,184 | Quote:
Originally Posted by Larrey Still doesn't explain the Soviet outright refusal to allow the use of airfields in their control by the British and Americans to try to supply the uprising by airdrops.
Stalin already had unilaterally withdrawn recognition of the Polish government in exile in London. It still had the support of the US and UK, but who could do nothing if the Soviets shut them out. | It is well possible that Stalin saw an opportunity of killing two birds with one stone, enabling a regeneration of his army and at the same time getting rid of the unwanted Polish fighters in Warsaw.
| | |
| | | Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.
|  |