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Old June 19th, 2012, 05:49 AM   #1
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The myths of WWII


Firstly, I would like to discuss the “overwhelming” superiority in manpower of Soviet Russia against axis.
Just a basic calculation of human potential of Soviet Union in 1941 vs Axis shows as that such “overwhelming” advantage did not exist.
Population of Soviet Union (including freshly annexed Baltic States, Bessarabia and Eastern Poland) was 196,716,000.
Population of Germany including ethnic German from concurred countries, Austria and Baltic German (resettled from Baltic country according to German-Soviet pre-Barbarossa agreement) was approximately 100,000,000.
Other axis country which actively took part in operation Barbarossa;
Finland; 4, 600,000
Romania; 20,470,000
Hungary; 9,360,000
Slovakia; 2,700,000

Total axis population; approximately 137,000,000 (not including Italy, Croatia and Spain contingent)
Considering that Soviet Union lost in the first few months the populous territory of Ukraine, Belarus, Baltic country and Western Russia, where this “overwhelming” manpower of Soviet Russia come from. Another great WWII myth?
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Old June 19th, 2012, 06:45 AM   #2

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100,000,000? Another myth.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 07:20 AM   #3

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population you say....what of active combatants and military forces?
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Old June 19th, 2012, 07:38 AM   #4

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So, by your numbers Russia had 60 million more people, or 45% more than the Germans. And you don't consider overwhelming superiority? I certainly do, especially considering the German forces were divided along multiple fronts.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 10:27 AM   #5

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numbers can be manipulated to show anything, in this case they show you are wrong
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Old June 19th, 2012, 11:11 AM   #6

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
population you say....what of active combatants and military forces?
The slovakian e.g. had an expedition corps of 42,000 soldiers in june 1941. Already in august the inf.divisions were sent back and a rapid division with 10,000 and a security division with 6,000 men were sent to russia.
Croatia gave 1 Inf.Rgt.. I would like to know, if the starter of the thread would like to include Spain again. They gave 18,000 men. Since 1943 only 3 batallions were on mission.
The Italian Expedition force had 62,000 in june 1941. This increased to 230,000 in spring 1942. In early 1943 all was over.
The Romanian 3rd and 4th army made around 300,000 men. Of course one has not only to add the Romanians to the germans, but as well in 1944 to the Soviets.
Hungary gave 30,000 soldiers in june 1941, in april 1942 this was increased to 200,000 men.
The finnish army had around 300,000 men, but did not help much after 1941.
So in 1941 the axis had around 700,000 troops. That's nearly a fourth. But most of these units were bad equipped and less motorized, even by German standards.

Germany had arond 3 million soldiers in the east. Surprisingly had the Soviets very soon more than 6, even nearly 8 million soldiers. And germany had as well many troops in other areas, especially since 1943. The Soviet Union had different to that only smaller forces in the east and it is of course worth to mention land-lease.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 12:56 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PubliusBassus View Post
So, by your numbers Russia had 60 million more people, or 45% more than the Germans. And you don't consider overwhelming superiority? I certainly do, especially considering the German forces were divided along multiple fronts.
Not in 1941,1942. The western front started drain german resources from the end of 1942. before that date France was used as a resting and reforming area for battered German divisions.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 12:57 PM   #8
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During first months of Barbarossa, Soviet Union lost territories of Ukraine, Belarus and western Russia.
Just rough estimation –it will be approximately 40mln. Additionally, population of Baltic countries, and western Ukraine actively supported Germany.
This will reduce the Soviet Population base (for year 1941, 42 and 43) to approximately 150mln against axes (without Italy) 137ml.
Additionally German industry used practically unlimited pool of slave labor and POW labor force. Soviet Union could use Soviet human resources only. It must be mentioned that without external input of slave labor Soviet Union won the race of production of war materiel. (There was plenty of Soviet own Gulags slavery though)
So once again, where is this overwhelming superiority in numbers come from?
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Old June 19th, 2012, 01:18 PM   #9

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward View Post
During first months of Barbarossa, Soviet Union lost territories of Ukraine, Belarus and western Russia.
Just rough estimation –it will be approximately 40mln. Additionally, population of Baltic countries, and western Ukraine actively supported Germany.
This will reduce the Soviet Population base (for year 1941, 42 and 43) to approximately 150mln against axes (without Italy) 137ml.
Additionally German industry used practically unlimited pool of slave labor and POW labor force. Soviet Union could use Soviet human resources only. It must be mentioned that without external input of slave labor Soviet Union won the race of production of war materiel. (There was plenty of Soviet own Gulags slavery though)
So once again, where is this overwhelming superiority in numbers come from?
The axis country never engaged themselves in the same degree as the Soviets or the Germans. Germany could never use the population of the occupied countries for their campaigns. Germany needed the forced labourers, because the nazis did not want a decline of living standards as in WWI. Nearly 45% of all male population was drafted during WWII. Stalin went the other way. He concentrated just on war related industries. The agriculture nearly collapsed. Without the land-lease it would have looked much worse.
BTW, the Red Army recruited 32 millions during the war, the germans 18.2, including foreigners (but without Hiwis)
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Old June 19th, 2012, 01:18 PM   #10
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100,000,000? Another myth.
So what is your number?
My estimation is:
Grossdeutschland; 90ml
Ethnic Germans (including so called Volksdeutchs) in Poland, former Czechoslovakia, Balkans , low countries and France –Estmate 10 millions (I could be wrong by few percent)
Hitler during Berlin Olympic roared” 100milion Germans are watching you” or something like this
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