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Old June 27th, 2012, 02:34 PM   #81

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Exactly, the British recognised they were short of tanks that could match the Panther and Tiger so the Firefly and challenger were spread throughout the armoured force to boost their strength, they were only ever used as tanks.

The British did use specialist tank destroyers such as the M10 Achilles but they were used in different concept to the Germans, basically as big armoured snipers to hunt and kill tanks so they were never designed to have heavy armour.

That concept had been tried with the Churchill Gun Carrier, taking the turret off a churchill and replacing it with a 3in high velocity gun in an armoured superstructure similar to German Stugs.
The idea never caught on and it was made redundant by better systems before it went into mass production.
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Old June 27th, 2012, 02:37 PM   #82

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The British did use specialist tank destroyers such as the M10 Achilles but they were used in different concept to the Germans, basically as big armoured snipers to hunt and kill tanks so they were never designed to have heavy armour.
Nemo

That was how the US Army used them, but the point I have been trying to make is that the British didn't employ the M10s it received in the same way - they were used as mobile A/Tk guns, not as tank hunters.

CH
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Old June 27th, 2012, 02:40 PM   #83

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I have visited the tank museum in Munster, Germany. That Tiger II sure was impressive, I had seen thousands of pictures and documentaries however never did it quite capture the majestic appearance of the Tiger II. So, perhaps Germany did have a better chance if they concentrated on the Panzer IV, however I'm glad they did not for selfish reasons :P

Also, the panzer IV was outclassed by the T-34 and equal to the American and British Shermans. So if they concentrated on one tank design it should have been the Panther or Panzer V. However this tank had many problems during its initial deployment.
There is a Tiger II at the Imperial War museum next to a Sherman, a Grant, a T34, a Churchill and some other tanks. It is awsome in comparison
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Old June 27th, 2012, 02:48 PM   #84

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There is a Tiger II at the Imperial War museum next to a Sherman, a Grant, a T34, a Churchill and some other tanks. It is awsome in comparison

Indeed. The most awesome thing about the Jadgpanther in the IWM is the holes made by the AP rounds that knocked it out.
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Old June 27th, 2012, 02:51 PM   #85

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There is a Tiger II at the Imperial War museum next to a Sherman, a Grant, a T34, a Churchill and some other tanks. It is awsome in comparison
I didn't realise they had a Tiger II at the IWM, i must have missed that the last time i went. I have seen the one at Bovington and ye, it does look very impressive.
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Old June 27th, 2012, 02:53 PM   #86

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Nemo

That was how the US Army used them, but the point I have been trying to make is that the British didn't employ the M10s it received in the same way - they were used as mobile A/Tk guns, not as tank hunters.

CH
Indeed. Their role is clearly shown in the fact that in the British Army the M10's were used by the Royal Artillery, not the tank regiments.
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Old June 27th, 2012, 02:53 PM   #87

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Indeed. The most awesome thing about the Jadgpanther in the IWM is the holes made by the AP rounds that knocked it out.
At least those that knocked it out had the sense to take it side on. It was nice to be able to see inside it.
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Old June 27th, 2012, 02:54 PM   #88

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Nemo

That was how the US Army used them, but the point I have been trying to make is that the British didn't employ the M10s it received in the same way - they were used as mobile A/Tk guns, not as tank hunters.

CH
I'll take your word for it, i'm better at technical stuff than tactical and i'm a bit rusty on British armour anyway.

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Indeed. The most awesome thing about the Jadgpanther in the IWM is the holes made by the AP rounds that knocked it out.
And just to raise my ego a little,

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Here are some shots taken of the IWM JagdPanther (command version). It was knocked out by the Cromwell of Lieutenant WH Griffiths 2nd Armoured Reconnaissance Batt. Welsh Guards in Hechtel, Belgium (Sept 1944).
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Old June 27th, 2012, 03:00 PM   #89

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At least those that knocked it out had the sense to take it side on. It was nice to be able to see inside it.

It would seem by 44/45 some lessons had been learned.

I rather like the IWM's choice of tanks for the central hall - it demonstrates Allied tank development quite succinctly.

Not Bovington or Duxford, of course, but not bad for the South Bank.
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Old June 27th, 2012, 03:03 PM   #90

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It would seem by 44/45 some lessons had been learned.

I rather like the IWM's choice of tanks for the central hall - it demonstrates Allied tank development quite succinctly.

Not Bovington or Duxford, of course, but not bad for the South Bank.
The Duxford collection was ok. But nothing compared to Bovvy. To be honest, i was pretty dissapointed with the Duxford collection full stop.
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