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Old July 22nd, 2012, 12:27 PM   #1

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The Aulde Allience


On the 26th August 1346, Edward III achieved a descisive victory at Crecy, after extensive campaigning in France. The French King Philip VI had pitted his best forces against the English army and lost. However, before this descisive battle, Philip had dispatched a letter to the King of Scotland, David II, appealing for his assistance by attcking England across the Border and into the Northern counties, effectively opening a new 'front'.
Due to the long standing allience between France and Scotland, king David had no choice but to agree. However, for reasons that are not really clear, the Scots King did not mount his 'invasion' until October 1346.

The battle of Crecy had already been decided by this date, and the Scottish king cannot have been unaware of its outcome and by this token, his invasion would seem to have been a pointless exercise. However, the Scots crossed the English border on or around the 7th of October with around 13000 men at arms. King David had taken the attitude that the Border regions and the Northern counties were a defenseless void, with no troops to protect the vast areas of uninhabited land. The Scots target was to be Durham and Yorkshire.

Unknown to David, Edward III had prepared for this eventuality. Messengers and spies quickly reported the Scots incursion. Subsequently, an army was assembled at Richmond in North Yorkshire, under the command of William Zouche, Archbishop of York, with numbers in the region of 3-4000 men at arms. These hastily assembled troops were to be reinforced by a further army of around 4000 men from north yorkshire.

Meanwhile, the Scots army had crossed into England and had captured the town of Liddlesdale. From there, they proceeded to march on Carlisle. Warned of immenent dnger, the towns authorities despatched messengers with a financial offering of 'protection money'. This was accepted by the Scots and they subsequently by passed the town, heading east in the direction of Hexham and Durham.

14th October 1346

The town of Hexham was sacked and substantial renumeration was 'squeezed' from its Abbey. The Scots host then continued their march on Durham and reached its environs, camping at Beaurepaire. In panic, the town authorities quickly made contact and the Scots were offered 1000 pounds to 'lay off' and leave the town in peace. The Scots made camp outside the town and from here, sent raiding party's into the surrounding countryside. Recieving word regarding the whereabouts of the Scottish Host, William Zouche decided to set his army on the march and they headed towards Barnard castle and Durham.

William Douglas, a Scots warlord was in command of one of the raiding party's when they stumbled into one of the English army's divisons on its way north towards Durham. A thick mist had developed, and the result was confusion and panic by the Scots. The English laid into them with no mercy. The Scots that did escape, frantically brought the news to King David II. The king had not anticipated armed resistance so quickly and he therefore led his army onto the high ground at Nevilles Cross. The troops rapidly moved into battle formation, facing south in 3 divisions to await the arrival of the English host.

The English forces duly assembled to the South and, as with the Scots, formed into 3 Divisions facing north towards the Scots army. Unknown to the Scots, the additional forces from yorkshire had joined the English host, and were comprising a great number of Longbowmen.

The Battle of Nevilles Cross, 17th October 1346

The 2 opposing army's stood their ground for most of the morning, neither army willing to make the first move. Just after Noon, the English started to advance to contact and commenced with an arrow storm. The Scots found their position untenable and therefore started to advance, Vanguard first. The vanguard was led by Lord Moray who tried to instill confidence in his troops. Unfortunately, the ground between both army's was not conducive to cohesion. Subsequently, the Scots panicked and broke into a rout.

Seeing the events unfolding in front of them, the Scots rearguard advanced at a double pace, trying to avoid the rain of Arrows coming down on them. This division was charged by the English Horse and the Scots were quickly scattered. The English Divisions advanced across the field and dispersed the remaining Scots.

King David II, who commanded the centre Division, rapidly found his division surrounded in a 'sea' of English men at arms and archers. The Scots were cut to peices and the formation disolved away. The king and his division went into rout and by dusk, the battlefield was empty with the Scots being chased up to 20 miles, back in the direction of Scotland.

King David II was captured by John of Copeland, who lost both front teeth when the king hit him with the pommel of his sword. David II was held in captivty for 11 years at Odiham castle. He was released on Ransome for 100,000 marks ( (15,000,000 pounds in todays money).

The Scots losses were:- 1500 killed and unknown wounded.
The English losses were:- Unknown.

The mystery of this battle is that it ever took place at all. King David II must have known about the French defeat at Crecy, so I ask the Question, what was he trying to achieve?.

I hope the readers enjoyed this potted history and I would welcome your comments.
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Old July 22nd, 2012, 12:59 PM   #2

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Despite Scotland being the junior partner in the Auld Alliance and despite defeats such as Nevilles Cross and Flodden in 1513 the treaty worked well for both Scotland and France as neither country was completely subjucated by England. The defeat at Nevilles Cross with hindsight may have seemed pointless but King David Bruce was honouring the Scottish obligation to France to the letter. It mattered not that he knew about the French defeat at Crecy, losing a battle no matter how pivotal was not the same as losing a war. The point of the treaty was that England could not invade France without watching the back door or Scotland as France would take advantage at home. Yes it cost the Scots dearly on more than one occassion but it worked in the long run and King David was not fool enough to rip up a vital treaty that was the gaurantee of Scottish independence.
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Old July 22nd, 2012, 01:03 PM   #3

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Originally Posted by Von Ranke View Post
Despite Scotland being the junior partner in the Auld Alliance and despite defeats such as Nevilles Cross and Flodden in 1513 the treaty worked well for both Scotland and France as neither country was completely subjucated by England. The defeat at Nevilles Cross with hindsight may have seemed pointless but King David Bruce was honouring the Scottish obligation to France to the letter. It mattered not that he knew about the French defeat at Crecy, losing a battle no matter how pivotal was not the same as losing a war. The point of the treaty was that England could not invade France without watching the back door or Scotland as France would take advantage at home. Yes it cost the Scots dearly on more than one occassion but it worked in the long run and King David was not fool enough to rip up a vital treaty that was the gaurantee of Scottish independence.
Thanks for your point of view
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Old July 22nd, 2012, 01:28 PM   #4

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The mystery of this battle is that it ever took place at all. King David II must have known about the French defeat at Crecy, so I ask the Question, what was he trying to achieve?.
.
It was still at the behest of Philip.

Quote:
Following his defeat at Crecy, and the melting away of his army, Philip of France found himself sorely pressed by the invading army of Edward III. He sought to relieve this pressure by urgently entreating David II, king of Scotland, to invade England, in the hope of drawing Edward back to defend his realm. David succumbed to the lure and, in October 1346, he marched his army over the border and into England, being assured that Edward and his chief commanders were absent...


Source: The bowmen of England, Donald Featherstone, pg 113

Any invasion of northern England would still have been very dangerous, with the the presence of the Northern barons, such as Neville, Percy and Scrope.

Hope this helps
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Old July 22nd, 2012, 01:35 PM   #5

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It was still at the behest of Philip.




Any invasion of northern England would still have been very dangerous, with the the presence of the Northern barons, such as Neville, Percy and Scrope.

Hope this helps
Yes, it does, thankyou. Lords neville and Percy were at this battle, each commanding a division
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Old July 22nd, 2012, 02:10 PM   #6

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Yes, it does, thankyou. Lords neville and Percy were at this battle, each commanding a division
You are welcome.

Indeed they did. Then again at Homildon Hill. Hotspur certainly earnt his epiteth there.

Both times the king in question was away in France and Wales respectively. Problem for theScots is, that the Northern barons were all very experienced, and were focusing on detaining any Scottish intervention from the north.
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Old July 22nd, 2012, 02:16 PM   #7

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You are welcome.

Indeed they did. Then again at Homildon Hill. Hotspur certainly earnt his epiteth there.

Both times the king in question was away in France and Wales respectively. Problem for theScots is, that the Northern barons were all very experienced, and were focusing on detaining any Scottish intervention from the north.
There is another crucial point here. Lords Percy and Neville held substantial estates in these border regions, which was sufficient for them to be extra vigilant and thoroughly prepaired for any incursion. In addition, they were both substantially rich and this enabled them to keep fairly large forces available.
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Old July 22nd, 2012, 02:20 PM   #8

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Originally Posted by Mangekyou View Post
You are welcome.

Indeed they did. Then again at Homildon Hill. Hotspur certainly earnt his epiteth there.

Both times the king in question was away in France and Wales respectively. Problem for theScots is, that the Northern barons were all very experienced, and were focusing on detaining any Scottish intervention from the north.
No doubt about that but as the issue is the effectiveness of the Auld Alliance I think we should address the bigger picture. The very fact that the English Monarchs had to leave the Northern Barons and their retinues at home to guard the back door meant they could not bring their full military machine into the field in France. This obviously weakened their efforts to fully conquer France.
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Old July 22nd, 2012, 02:29 PM   #9

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No doubt about that but as the issue is the effectiveness of the Auld Alliance I think we should address the bigger picture. The very fact that the English Monarchs had to leave the Northern Barons and their retinues at home to guard the back door meant they could not bring their full military machine into the field in France. This obviously weakened their efforts to fully conquer France.
Not wishing to contradict you Von Ranke but I think its a case that Edward III had substantial forces tied up on the continent, especially Longbowmen. I also think that the conflict with France at this time, was not so much to conquor more territory, but to consolidate existing English possessions and get the French to recognise the dual sovereignty of Edwards claim as king of England and France.
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Old July 22nd, 2012, 02:33 PM   #10

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Originally Posted by SPERRO View Post
There is another crucial point here. Lords Percy and Neville held substantial estates in these border regions, which was sufficient for them to be extra vigilant and thoroughly prepaired for any incursion. In addition, they were both substantially rich and this enabled them to keep fairly large forces available.
Absolutely

Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Ranke View Post
No doubt about that but as the issue is the effectiveness of the Auld Alliance I think we should address the bigger picture. The very fact that the English Monarchs had to leave the Northern Barons and their retinues at home to guard the back door meant they could not bring their full military machine into the field in France. This obviously weakened their efforts to fully conquer France.
I agree with you in a sense, in that manner it was effective. However, possible recruits were decimated by the plague and after that it was scraping the barrel.

The fact that they were able to possibly fight on two fronts is even more remarkable given this fact and the small population of England relative to France. The Longbow was the reason why.
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