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Old January 10th, 2009, 09:12 AM   #1
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Could World War 2 have been won by the allies without the Soviet Union?


I had something of an argument with a somewhat 'uninformed' friend, who didn't think that Allies needed the soviet union to win WW2 (they changed their minds after being presented with the facts). However it left me wondering if it would have been possible at all for the allies to win assuming the soviet union had no input, would America just have nuked Europe and won anyway?

Your thoughts.
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Old January 10th, 2009, 12:16 PM   #2
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Re: Could World War 2 have been won by the allies without the Soviet Union?


No. We could have easily won without America but Russia's contribution was vital. They held back 80% of Nazi forces, had more resources, factories and better equipment (T-34, ppsh sub machine gun, warm winter clothing, trucks designed to operate in subzero temeratures) and inflicted the heaviest casualties.
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Old January 10th, 2009, 12:18 PM   #3

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Re: Could World War 2 have been won by the allies without the Soviet Union?


Britain was on its knees economically though?
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Old January 10th, 2009, 12:35 PM   #4
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Re: Could World War 2 have been won by the allies without the Soviet Union?


But our navy and air force were able to hold off the German invasion and our shipping allowed us to bring in resources (America was still neutral during the battle of Britain and would continue to supply us even if they didn't fight). Unlike the rest of Europe we're an island, making invasion more difficult in contast to the Blitzkrieg tactics that overran France and Poland.
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Old January 10th, 2009, 01:06 PM   #5

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Re: Could World War 2 have been won by the allies without the Soviet Union?


Hmm true. Battle of Britain was great success for RAF.
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Old January 10th, 2009, 01:55 PM   #6

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Re: Could World War 2 have been won by the allies without the Soviet Union?


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No. We could have easily won without America...
What?! without American participation Germany would have won the war. Without the 'support' of the US navy even when the US was neutral, the U-boats would have won the Battle of the Atlantic, and starved the UK into submission. The USA provided millions of tons of vital supplies to the Soviet Union to keep it going.
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Old January 10th, 2009, 03:58 PM   #7

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Re: Could World War 2 have been won by the allies without the Soviet Union?


Could World War 2 have been won by the allies without the Soviet Union?

I'd guess yes. It would have taken longer. How much longer would have depended on what sort of neutrality The Soviet Union observed toward Germany - strict or friendly.

But read The 90-Division Gamble in Command Decisions.

Done? OK! So, it is true that there would have been an increase in material available for use by the US Army if there had been no provision for Soviet forces. But nevertheless, having a relatively small army would have required a different grand strategy for the prosecution of the war.

Or maybe we would have just nuked Germany and that would be that.
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Old January 10th, 2009, 04:53 PM   #8

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Re: Could World War 2 have been won by the allies without the Soviet Union?


Neutrality would not have had been an option. Hitler had plans of creating the greater Deutschland out of the conquered lands in the East, and lebensraum out of the areas considered to be far Eastern Europe; Belarus, Ukraine, the Baltic Republics and European Russia.

Thus, I think signifying the fact that if the U.S.S.R had not been a part of the Allied war effort, they would have been conquered.

Alas, I don't reckon that the Third Reich could have won the war outright. I think, their effort would have lead to an eventual stalemate.
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Old January 10th, 2009, 06:01 PM   #9

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Re: Could World War 2 have been won by the allies without the Soviet Union?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
But our navy and air force were able to hold off the German invasion and our shipping allowed us to bring in resources (America was still neutral during the battle of Britain and would continue to supply us even if they didn't fight). Unlike the rest of Europe we're an island, making invasion more difficult in contast to the Blitzkrieg tactics that overran France and Poland.
I have to disagree with you.the question was could the allies have won the war . You say that Britain could have won it without us assistance. Without us assistance, Britain would only have been able to force Germany into an armistice assuming they weren't all dead from starvation. Britain never would gave been able to invade france with only the aid of Canada, Australia and new Zealand were too busy fighting the Japanese in the pacific to help and the ussr had it's own battles to fight. What is more likely is that Russia defeats Germany and sweeps through Europe crwatingba much larger communist bloc. Meanwhile in the pacific japan captures Australia and new Zealand because they did not gave the support of the Americans. That is of ciudad assuming that japan intended to invade Australia and new Zealand in the first place.
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Old January 10th, 2009, 07:20 PM   #10

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Re: Could World War 2 have been won by the allies without the Soviet Union?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Belisarius View Post
What?! without American participation Germany would have won the war. Without the 'support' of the US navy even when the US was neutral, the U-boats would have won the Battle of the Atlantic, and starved the UK into submission. The USA provided millions of tons of vital supplies to the Soviet Union to keep it going.
I think its fair to say that the Allies didn't need America to enter the war directly to win. Certainly the neutral aid of the US was vital to the Allied war effort, however, by the time of the D-Day landings, Hitler was on his last legs. The American invasions merely put the nail in the coffin.
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