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Old November 23rd, 2012, 04:19 PM   #101
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For the French at least when they realised that their colorful red trousers in WW I may have been beautiful to look at, but in fact did more damage then good. Same for Germany with the Pickelhaubels. Britain and most other countries got rid of this romantic form of warfare before the outbreak of WW I.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 04:41 PM   #102
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For the French at least when they realised that their colorful red trousers in WW I may have been beautiful to look at, but in fact did more damage then good. Same for Germany with the Pickelhaubels. Britain and most other countries got rid of this romantic form of warfare before the outbreak of WW I.
Britain was at the forefront of uniform design and also webbing design pre-WWI

Strange how the British designed the worst uniform of WWII though.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 04:45 PM   #103

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When rifle technology became such that being in a bright uniform made you a target.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 04:51 PM   #104
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When rifle technology became such that being in a bright uniform made you a target.
For the British, that would be the 1st Boer War
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Old November 24th, 2012, 06:53 AM   #105

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Britain was at the forefront of uniform design and also webbing design pre-WWI

Strange how the British designed the worst uniform of WWII though.
Surely you jest?

This would be the same British uniform that the German army copied even down to the gaiters?
Or the same British army that couldnt provide dashing raincoats to dazzle the ladies of London but somehow could provide cold weather boots with the leather the right way round so as not to give the wearer instant frostbite?

The worst that could be said about the uniform was that is was unglamorous and certainly itchy until worn in but it had been economised down so nothing that wasnt combat necessary was included.

If you want the worst uniform of the war your going to have to search in different places, Italy or Bulgaria might be a good start.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 08:28 AM   #106

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Originally Posted by Nemowork View Post
Surely you jest?

This would be the same British uniform that the German army copied even down to the gaiters?
Or the same British army that couldnt provide dashing raincoats to dazzle the ladies of London but somehow could provide cold weather boots with the leather the right way round so as not to give the wearer instant frostbite?

The worst that could be said about the uniform was that is was unglamorous and certainly itchy until worn in but it had been economised down so nothing that wasnt combat necessary was included.

If you want the worst uniform of the war your going to have to search in different places, Italy or Bulgaria might be a good start.
Why do you consider there uniforms bad?
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Old November 24th, 2012, 09:19 AM   #107

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Theres probably nothing wrong with the Bulgarian uniform, only nobody can decide what it was.
Czarist era Russian style jackboots and blouse shirt? Sometimes!
German style czech helmet, italian battledress and gaiters? Sometimes!
Soviet greatcoat and ankle boots? If your an officer!
Bulgarian copy Mannlicher rifles or German issue Mauser rifles, or maybe something Italain, with the webbing and ammunition pouches to go with it. It depends!

The wartime helmets get particularly low points, the German made ones were done on an extreme budget so the liner only comes in one side and doesnt have and padding and the edges havent been rolled so it basically a steel blade. Good for headbutting an enemy, not so good if the shoddy liner and strap means it falls off on your fingers.

The Italians werent bad in theory apart from their famous cardboard boots, which was a good idea using pressed cellulose as an alernative to wooden buttons and leather but it wasnt well made and fell apart.
The gaiters and high collars werent particularly useful but were at least current in WW1, its more the abject confusion between pre-war, wartime economy and post collapse production of fascist and anti-fascist/allied styles with everything being made on different patterns, of different quality then adding the Italians annoying tendency to pinch flashy bits of every other uniform to stand out in the crowd meaning any two Italians standing side by side post 1943 looked like an international fashion parade but nothing like each other.
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Old November 25th, 2012, 01:47 AM   #108

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As for the standard service rifle of bulgarian army, it was either Mannlicher M.88/90 rifle, Mannlicher M.1886/90 rifle, Mannlicher M.1890 carbine and Mannlicher M.1895, depends on the period of time, and the branch of military (cavalry, infantry etc.)
This rifle was used in the previous wars (Balkan wars) as well, and also had seen service during World war 2.
The rifles were not copy but indeed original, made in Austro-Hungary, each with a small engraved insignia on them:
Click the image to open in full size.
A small lion under the rear sight, here is a larger view:
Click the image to open in full size.
Newer models Mannlicher had a lion in a shield:
Click the image to open in full size.

As for uniforms.
The first helmet that was introduced to the bulgarian army was late in the war, in 1917, according to Ludwig Baer (who wrote a book about the german helmets) 170,000 german helmets model M-16 were delivered to Bulgaria in 1917. Before that soldiers were given caps, which of course offered no protection For the record the germans have changed there Pickelhaube, with M-16 helmets in 1916, though im not absolutely sure.
Such model of helmet was also used in world war 2, by bulgarian army.

The colors and type of uniforms i guess also depends on the military branch, the biggest flaw are the boots, some soldiers did wear peasant style footwear, during world war 1.
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Old November 25th, 2012, 04:05 AM   #109

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The only problem we're having here is your talking about WW1 uniforms and i'm talking about the WW2 ones

The Helmets are supposedly the 1942 issue from Eisenhuttenwerk Thalein Germany which were particularly shoddy compared to pre-war.

Theres also the Bulgarian version of the German M43 field cap but apart from being brown that was no different to German issue.

your right though, my memory was off on the Bulgarian ciopy Mannlichers, they were either direct sale to the Bulgarian army or removed from Austrian service then transferred when the Austrians were incorporated into German military standards.
The Bulgarian bit probably comes from the rechambering they did post WW1.

I've also found a bunch of Belgian Mannlicher conversions to 7.92mm in Bulgarian service, possibly ex-Greek or Serbian weapons, German supply of 7.92 mm Mausers and assorted Italian weapons picked up by units. Its a mess.
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Old November 25th, 2012, 04:35 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Nemowork View Post
Surely you jest?

This would be the same British uniform that the German army copied even down to the gaiters?
Or the same British army that couldnt provide dashing raincoats to dazzle the ladies of London but somehow could provide cold weather boots with the leather the right way round so as not to give the wearer instant frostbite?

The worst that could be said about the uniform was that is was unglamorous and certainly itchy until worn in but it had been economised down so nothing that wasnt combat necessary was included...
Clearly you have never worn battle dress

The jacket whilst inspiring the classic denim jacket was a painfully bad design - wool is just not a good material, when it gets wet, it STAYS wet for a long time.
The battle dress jacket seemed to have been designed to make you cold and you exposed your lower back every time you bent down.

The trousers were un-necessarily thick and protection against the rain (of which there's a lot in NW Europe) was a thick wool greatcoat

The British helmet was widely criticized and was frequently thrown away - utterly useless...that it soldiered on until the mid 1980's is something of a disgrace
Look at pictures of the Falklands conflict, soldiers aren't wearing helmets (except the paratroops who had their own skull hugging design) because the issue helmet was so bad

The British army didn't issue gaiters, that was the US army (the modern British army does actually issue canvas gaiters now)
In WWII the British army issued woolen puttees or an ankle high canvas cover

The British army also had poor / obsolete weapons (only the Japanese of the major players in the war had worse weaponry)
Aside from the excellent BREN gun (a Czech design) British small arms were either obsolescent or just plain bad

Weapon design stagnated in the UK after WWI and has never been revived, indeed I don't think military small arms are manufactured there any more.
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