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Old November 8th, 2012, 01:41 PM   #31
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A misconception of the Holocaust is that all of the Jews were killed in the camps, and that it was a secret kept from both the German homefront and the average German soldier. In fact about 2.2 million civilians were killed in the field by the Einsatzgruppen, about 1,000,000 of them Jews. Those killings were in the open and not all hidden from public sight. The Einsatzgruppen were not a secret, and the average German soldier in Eastern Europe if he had not witnessed a massacre himself, had at least heard of them. The regular Germany Army frequently assisted the Einsatzgruppen in these massacres, as did local civilians, and rumors of them were common even among the civilian populace on the home front.
Not only by Einsatzgruppen. The Reserve Police Battalions (comprising middle age conscripts) were on the front line of executions of “undesirables”
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/battalion101.html
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Old November 8th, 2012, 01:56 PM   #32
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[QUOTE=beorna;1251683]

The termination camps weren't in germany and they were widely shrouded. It was not wise to come too close to them. Those who worked as slave labourers, as you called it, were very different. Especially Russians were treated bad. I know it from my town were such camps existed. The responsibles were often scumbags and well known. I know about at least one rape. But there were as well several, who gave bread to the Russians, allthough it was forbidden. Those scumbags were not only dangerous for the Russians, they as well were a threat for the germans in my village. But there were as well French workers who could move without restrictions. So there was no coherent impression.
Germans in greater numbers became aware of the crimes since 1943. Some did know about it even since summer 1941. How many knew is unknown, the sources contradictory.

QUOTE]
Almost all concentration Camps and Extermination Camps were in the territory of III Reich at full view of German population.
Auschwitz was on area annexed to III Reich. Polish population around Camp was expelled and replaced by German settlers. The inmates of Auschwitz worked in nearby industrial enterprises at full view of German co-workers.
haw you can say that they did not know?

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Old November 8th, 2012, 02:08 PM   #33

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Almost all concentration Camps and Extermination Camps were in the territory of III Reich at full view of German population.
Auschwitz was on area annexed to III Reich. Polish population around Camp was expelled and replaced by German settlers. The inmates of Auschwitz worked in nearby industrial enterprises at full view of German co-workers.
haw you can say that they did not know?

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yes, if you include the annexed territories, you would be widely correct. But there lived no or just few germans. The companies there had as well not much german workers, but just a several core workers. And BTW, i did not say they did not know. i said nobody can say how many knew and what. So don't put again words in my mouth I did not say.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 02:32 PM   #34
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yes, if you include the annexed territories, you would be widely correct. But there lived no or just few germans. The companies there had as well not much german workers, but just a several core workers. And BTW, i did not say they did not know. i said nobody can say how many knew and what. So don't put again words in my mouth I did not say.
Not enterly true. The areas annexed by III Reich has been cleared from Polish population and was settled by German Settlers. This also apply to Auschwitz region.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 02:38 PM   #35
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I would like to point out that the difference between Extermination Camp and Concentration Camp is very fluid.
For example, Bergen Belsen and Mauthausen were not classified as Extermination camps.
Look at the photos below;
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A mass grave inside Bergen-Belsen concentration camp.


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Starving prisoners in
Mauthausen_concentration_camp Mauthausen_concentration_camp
liberated on May 5, 1945.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 03:15 PM   #36

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Not enterly true. The areas annexed by III Reich has been cleared from Polish population and was settled by German Settlers. This also apply to Auschwitz region.
maybe i am wrong, but it sounds as if all Poles were cleared from the annexed areas and replaced 1:1 by germans. In action saybusch up to 20,000 Poles were expelled and a bit more than 3,000 germans from the Bukovina, which was given to stalin settled. There were as well deportations from the Auschwitz region. But they were usually replaced by some volksdeutsche.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 03:29 PM   #37

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Originally Posted by Edward View Post
I would like to point out that the difference between Extermination Camp and Concentration Camp is very fluid.
For example, Bergen Belsen and Mauthausen were not classified as Extermination camps.
Look at the photos below;
Click the image to open in full size.
A mass grave inside Bergen-Belsen concentration camp.


Click the image to open in full size.

Starving prisoners in Mauthausen concentration camp liberated on May 5, 1945.
What do photos of 1945 show for the knowledge about these crimes in 1941 or 1942 or 1943? What do you want to prove? all germans knew about it, made a walk on sunday to have a look?
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Old November 8th, 2012, 03:35 PM   #38
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What do photos of 1945 show for the knowledge about these crimes in 1941 or 1942 or 1943? What do you want to prove? all germans knew about it, made a walk on sunday to have a look?
Yes, beorna. I,m convinced that all German knew about extermination. Not all took part in this process but all knew about it.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 03:40 PM   #39

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Yes, beorna. I,m convinced that all German knew about extermination. Not all took part in this process but all knew about it.
Not all took part? All knew? What a nonsense!!! This is not supported by any source and historian. But I am sure you don't care, as long as you are convinced.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 07:37 PM   #40
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Not all took part? All knew? What a nonsense!!! This is not supported by any source and historian. But I am sure you don't care, as long as you are convinced.
Yes,I'm. There was no single person in Austrian village where my Father worked as a slave labourer (by the way he was treated well in Austria) which did not know abaut it. The only question for discussion is when they learned about extermination. About prossecutions, deportation to ghettos they knew from the begining.

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Jews forced to scrub the street of Vienna after the Anschluss (annexation) of Austria, March 1938

Last edited by Edward; November 8th, 2012 at 07:49 PM.
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