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Old November 12th, 2012, 11:13 PM   #51

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Originally Posted by tomar View Post
While some of what he is says is true, it has nothing to do with ethnicity or culture but rather with the level of development and wealth of the countries... You would find most if not all of these "problems" in Latin America, Africa and in some Asian countries.... who are obviously not arab

In summary it is no surprise that countries with a low GDP per capita and little or no industrial capacity to produce advanced weapons have armies that cannot compete with those of the richer, industrialized countries.


The Arab states are among the richest industrialized nations in the world. They can buy any military hardware they want - and they do. Some of these countries have highly sophisticated weapons systems purchased from Russia, China, and the West.

You can't blame their failures. on low GDP or industrial capacity.

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Originally Posted by funakison View Post
Why do arabs lose wars, they dont have the most up to date American equipment
False:

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Despite the global recession, Arab states have signed huge deals for U.S. military hardware, whose sophistication has been on full display in two long wars in the neighborhood.

Petraeus said countries in the region now deploy eight Patriot missile-interceptor batteries — up from zero a few years ago — made by Raytheon Corp. And the Pentagon last month announced that Kuwait had ordered upgrades of its Patriot missile system, in a deal worth $410 million.

But Raytheon isn't the only beneficiary of anxiety over Iran. The United Arab Emirates this year ordered $9 billion worth of U.S. military gear, Petraeus noted, including 70 Lockheed Martin F-16 fighter jets of a generation more advanced than those being used by the U.S. Air Force.

"The Emirati air force can now take out Iran's air force," Petraeus said.
(Source).

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Originally Posted by harbinger View Post
Main problem is not the ordinary soldier but their officerkorps is corrupt,inept,tribal minded and snobs,many owing their applications to political loyalty .
^^ This. It's a cultural problem.

Last edited by Sankari; November 12th, 2012 at 11:19 PM.
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Old November 13th, 2012, 05:49 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankari View Post


The Arab states are among the richest industrialized nations in the world. They can buy any military hardware they want - and they do. Some of these countries have highly sophisticated weapons systems purchased from Russia, China, and the West.

You can't blame their failures. on low GDP or industrial capacity.
Wrong

There are 22 countries that consider themselves "arab" with total population exceeding 300 million

Only a handful are "rich" thanks to Oil/Gas (less than 20% of the total "arab" population)... and even those countries that are rich have little or no manufacturing capability. Egypt for example is the most populated arab country with 80 million or so, and has a GDP per head of about $3,000 (vs about $50, 000 for the US).. In fact most non oil producing arab countries hover in the $3,000 to $5,000 per head bracket.

Sure you can buy military hardware... You will never get the best (that is why there are "export" version) as selling countries are careful to maintain their advantage (you never know who might be shooting at you tomorrow).. More over maintenance, spare parts and training are always a problem when you do not have the capability to do that yourself.
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Old November 13th, 2012, 06:47 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankari View Post


The Arab states are among the richest industrialized nations in the world. They can buy any military hardware they want - and they do. Some of these countries have highly sophisticated weapons systems purchased from Russia, China, and the West.

You can't blame their failures. on low GDP or industrial capacity.
That could be right if any fallacious sweeping generalization on any particular ethnicity would be attempted here.

Because there are plenty of Arab nations that simply have no oil (nor money, for that matter).

Including several notorious examples explicitly mentioned by the author linked at the OP.

Let say like Egypt, Yemen, Lebanon, Syria, and so on
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Old November 13th, 2012, 06:55 AM   #54

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankari View Post


The Arab states are among the richest industrialized nations in the world. They can buy any military hardware they want - and they do. Some of these countries have highly sophisticated weapons systems purchased from Russia, China, and the West.
No Arab country is truly "industrialized", but several are indeed rich.
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Old November 13th, 2012, 03:31 PM   #55

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When it comes to the Gulf Statea, I did find out that the army is geared to protecting the ruling family and not really combating external threats. They probably have tried to change this over the years.

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Although in every case the gulf armies are much larger than the air forces and navies, the ground forces have traditionally been oriented toward counterinsurgency actions and the protection of the ruling families
Source. Also, contains other information.
Oman - Military Capabilities of the Persian Gulf States
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Old November 13th, 2012, 07:04 PM   #56

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Wrong

There are 22 countries that consider themselves "arab" with total population exceeding 300 million

Only a handful are "rich" thanks to Oil/Gas (less than 20% of the total "arab" population)...
I said the Arab states are among the richest in the world. I didn't say they were all the richest in the world.

The richest Arab nations can buy whatever they want, and they do. They get the best military hardware available, usually straight from the West.

The less affluent Arab nations overspend on military hardware at the expense of infrastructure and socio-economic development, which is why they're such grubby little hell-holes. It's about how they choose to spend their money, not how much they have. A nation can build up an impressive arsenal if it doesn't mind cutting corners in other areas. States like Syria have good relations with Russia and China, and have no trouble sourcing good quality hardware.

The poorest Arab nations don't wage war, so they're irrelevant.

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and even those countries that are rich have little or no manufacturing capability.
Also irrelevant. They can buy whatever they need. Most Western states also import more than they produce these days. It's a global trend in developed nations.

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Sure you can buy military hardware... You will never get the best (that is why there are "export" version) as selling countries are careful to maintain their advantage (you never know who might be shooting at you tomorrow)..
That's not true, I've already shown they are buying the best. Some of their hardware is even better than the USA's own military is using right now.

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More over maintenance, spare parts and training are always a problem when you do not have the capability to do that yourself.
The purchase of military hardware at this level usually involves a maintenance agreement with the manufacturer and/or supplier. It's not a problem.

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Originally Posted by sylla1 View Post
Because there are plenty of Arab nations that simply have no oil (nor money, for that matter).
I've addressed this. See above.

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Let say like Egypt
Egyptians are not Arabs.

Quote:
Yemen, Lebanon, Syria, and so on
All of which are known to purchase high grade military hardware from other nations.

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Originally Posted by civfanatic View Post
No Arab country is truly "industrialized"
Wrong. Please learn the definition of 'industrialised.'

I stand by my position that the primary reasons for Arab military failure are cultural, not economic.
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Old November 13th, 2012, 07:15 PM   #57

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Originally Posted by Sankari View Post
I
Wrong. Please learn the definition of 'industrialised'.
Please enlighten me on what 'industrialised' means, and then explain to me why Arab countries fit that criteria.
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Old November 13th, 2012, 09:12 PM   #58

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The Soviet military instructors who had served with the Egyptian army observed some quite odd religious superstitions like it had been OK for Arabs to completely abandon radar facility for a prayer or not being able to fly on the fighter jets higher then few km cause "it's forbidden to go to the God's place". Not sure how sincere they are. Might be just a try to escape responsibility. They taught Arabs outdated WWII doctrines after all.
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Old November 13th, 2012, 10:08 PM   #59
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The Soviet military instructors who had served with the Egyptian army observed some quite odd religious superstitions like it had been OK for Arabs to completely abandon radar facility for a prayer or not being able to fly on the fighter jets higher then few km cause "it's forbidden to go to the God's place". Not sure how sincere they are. Might be just a try to escape responsibility. They taught Arabs outdated WWII doctrines after all.
I was working in Egypt in late 1970’s and early 1980’s. I have employed many Egyptian workers and I did not notice that they will leave their duty to pray. Of course they did pray but with no noticeable negligence of their duty.
The Egyptian lost the wars because their equipment was outdated, the training was too rigid and no allowance for individual initiative has been provided, but mostly because a very bad shape of Soviet trained military as a whole.
Egyptian army increased their battle worthiness after expelling Soviet instructors (in 1972 Sadat expelled about 20000 Soviet advisers) and adopted more modern methods of training. These measures paid dividends with initial success of Yom Kippur war in 1973.
Please note that the war occurred during Holly month of Ramadan and this did not have visual impact on performance of Egyptian Army.
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Old November 13th, 2012, 10:36 PM   #60

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Of course they did pray but with no noticeable negligence of their duty.
Well, success has many fathers, failure is an orphan. The loosers tend to invent many excuses.
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