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Old November 17th, 2012, 01:53 PM   #11

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I cannot be proud of something *I* did not create. I did not create this country nor led troops in battle. But I am respectful of the armed forces and happy what my country has done and tries to achieve.
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Old November 17th, 2012, 02:46 PM   #12

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Military wise no, well at best I guess I could be proud of the fights for independence versus the Spanish, but it's something that I find more just interesting with a slight bias for my side than being all "oh gawd we were so great,etc..."

Most of the nation pride here usually comes from the discoveries, and I don't even mean the colonial part but the actual being the first to reach India, China, Japan, etc... by sea and getting rich by the trade there.
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Old November 17th, 2012, 04:09 PM   #13

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OK, the country that I was born and reared in landed men on the Moon six times for a grand total of about 80 hours of Extra-vehicular activity on the surface. Sometimes I get the idea that that should be a source of national pride. But the thing is, to get to go on those missions, the crew members all had to be able to do math - and I don't mean long division - I mean trigulus or whatever that hard stuff is called.

And then I am fully seized of the principle that it's got nothing to do with my humble gifts and any sort of pride I may be possessed of is the sort that has nothing to do with me.

I try to excel in not making things worse.
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Old November 17th, 2012, 04:44 PM   #14

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On one side America turned the tide of several major wars and successfully spread democratic ideas across the globe.

On the other hand we slaughtered thousands of Native Americans, allowed the ideals of slavery to persist into the latter half of the 19th century, imprisoned Japanese civilians in internment camps during WW2, invaded Vietnam in one of the biggest fiascos in history, the Vietnam War (it was so incredibly stupid it's a wonder my IQ hasn't dropped at the mere mention of it) and blew hundreds if not thousands of innocent Middle Eastern civilians to bits during the Iraq and Afghan Wars, and are currently oppressing civil liberties like it's the Middle Ages.

Although I might be a wee bit harsh, my opinion is plain.
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Old November 17th, 2012, 10:15 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamboozle View Post
On one side America turned the tide of several major wars and successfully spread democratic ideas across the globe.

On the other hand we slaughtered thousands of Native Americans, allowed the ideals of slavery to persist into the latter half of the 19th century, imprisoned Japanese civilians in internment camps during WW2, invaded Vietnam in one of the biggest fiascos in history, the Vietnam War (it was so incredibly stupid it's a wonder my IQ hasn't dropped at the mere mention of it) and blew hundreds if not thousands of innocent Middle Eastern civilians to bits during the Iraq and Afghan Wars, and are currently oppressing civil liberties like it's the Middle Ages.

Although I might be a wee bit harsh, my opinion is plain.
Yep, spread democracy... that explains Pinochet in Chile and Saddam Hussein in Iraq and the taliban in Afghanistan... Very democratic...
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Old November 18th, 2012, 05:35 AM   #16

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Humans have always wanted to form larger and larger social groupings, probably because of their obvious connection with security. With the rise of capital and the decline of a Feudalism that viewed countries as often sharing monarchs or their families, power elites needed to form a new concept of their largest social groupings, needed to have a new rallying point to avoid being thrown on the scrap heap of nations. Nation and therefore nationalism is a concept that first must be imagined... That is: many different peoples at some time in their history use their imaginations to accept commonalities in order to form their nation.

If we use the powerful German experience to see how nationalism ran out of control, we find it's origins were constructed and reconstructed by amongst other things... fairytales.
The Brothers Grimm created a imagined nation of shared values from a collection of European children's narratives... That would go on to culturally construct what good German boys and girls should collectively value as members of a new nation. Trouble was of course, that not all were narratives from Germanic states, some were from Russia and others from France

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The Brothers Grimm, inspired by Herder's writings, put together an idealized collection of tales, which they labeled as authentically German. The concept of an inherited cultural patrimony from a common origin rapidly became central to a divisive question within romantic nationalism: specifically, is a nation unified because it comes from the same genetic source, that is because of race, or is the participation in the organic nature of the "folk" culture self-fulfilling?
German expansion (and thus WWII) was a product of late 19th Century European colonial successes that largely excluded Germany and Japan. The formation of the modern Germany nation (some 16 states from Prussia to Bavaria) while empowering for the smaller states, lacked a navy of any consequence, but still driven by the same colonial expansionist mentality infecting other European nations. German nationalism became a utility for state expansion holding firmly that Germans had no other choice but to attack neighboring Europeans in order for German people to survive and find breathing space to thrive. With the fall of the Kaiser, national pride was released to express itself without limits through a dangerous Ultra-nationalism that in its most primitive form would go on to leave millions dead and set back civilization thousands of years.
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Old November 18th, 2012, 07:49 AM   #17

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Yep, spread democracy... that explains Pinochet in Chile and Saddam Hussein in Iraq and the taliban in Afghanistan... Very democratic...
That's my point, we've always done stupid stuff that outweighs the good - example, making a situation worse under the guise of "democracy". Hence why I'm not a patriot.
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