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Old November 16th, 2012, 09:04 AM   #1
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Russia helps Germany

did not Russia have a 'hand' in helping Germany start the war by having the pact with Germany?
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Old November 16th, 2012, 09:26 AM   #2

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Yes, substantial resources were delivered to Nazi-Germany that were crucial to it's war efforts prior to Operation Barbarossa
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Old November 16th, 2012, 09:29 AM   #3

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Hitler knew the dangers of a war on two fronts, he certainly would have benefited from knowowing in advance Russian reactions of his planned move on Poland and having Stalin on side might well have been the clincher in his decision.

It is, however, worth remembering that Hitlers foreign policy had always been an alomost line by line repudiation of the treaty of Versailles. That together with the german peoples right to elbow room and the desire for a contiguos Germany that included East Prussia makes Poland a very tempting target for Hitler.
By the late 30s it was not a case of if Hitler would attack Poland but when.

So Russias pact with Germany only accelerated the onset of hostilities.
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Old November 16th, 2012, 11:01 AM   #4

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Yes it did. It helped Germany secure resources for itself to help prepare for war. When Germany started invading everyone to the west knowing that there little threat from the east was a big load off Hitler's mind.
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Old November 16th, 2012, 12:25 PM   #5
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would you say Russia is a little complicit in helping to start the war??
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Old November 16th, 2012, 01:33 PM   #6

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Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
would you say Russia is a little complicit in helping to start the war??
The plain facts are that the Soviet Union invaded and occupied the Eastern part of Poland (September 1939), led a bloody war of aggression against Finland (November 1939 - March 1940), and invaded and occupied the three Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania (June 1940). These wars and occupations were accompanied by large-scale massacres, e.g. the Katyn massacre (April/ May 1940).

It is interesting for me to note that despite all these well-known and easily verifiable facts, most people still are not convinced that it was both Germany and the Soviet Union that started WWII in Europe. To consider the aggression of the Soviet Union not more than a help for Germany is an understatement (albeit the Soviet Union admittedly started the war two weeks later). The explanation for this still widespread interpretation is probably the fact that the Soviet Union later on was an important ally for the UK and the US ("my enemy's enemy is my friend").
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Old November 16th, 2012, 03:34 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
would you say Russia is a little complicit in helping to start the war??
More than USA which supplied Germany with aircraft fuel, computing machines, money, cars? More than Britain that let Germany reoccupy Rhineland, build navy and army? More than France that let Germany swallow Czechoslovakia with its industry? Yes, USSR was little bit complicit
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Old November 16th, 2012, 04:21 PM   #8

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Very likely that 30 years after (If only West will still exist) our pale faced brothers will claim that the USSR was the only initiator of the war.The superior race should not feel complex of guilt. As a famoust European liked to say : I release you from the chimera of conscience .
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Old November 16th, 2012, 06:12 PM   #9

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Yes, absolutely. The USSR (not just Russia) gave Germany a free hand to face the French and British in the west. However, in the end, it was the Soviet people who ultimately crushed the Germans.
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Old November 16th, 2012, 08:05 PM   #10
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If we suffer from collective and partial amnesia and pretend history started in August 39 then yes the USSR clear position that it would not intervene against Germany, gave Hitler one more reason to go at Poland.

If however we remember that:

- in 1936 France, Britain and the USA pretty much let the nazis and the fascists do what they wanted in Spain (whereas the USSR was the only power to support the republic with weapons)
- Austria was swallowed without a peep
- Czecoslovakia was cowardly abandonned (and even Poland allied with Germany to take a bite out of the Czechs) by the Franco British...... who moreover INSISTED that the czechs hand out part of their country to Germany..... (in this case the USSR was the only one to want to oppose the Germans but Poland - undertstandable but in this case short sighted- did not want to give right of passage to soviet troops en route to Czechoslovakia)
- the USA sat on its hands until 1941 (what if the US had taken a clear position in August 1939 that it would protect Poland's sovereignity, ever think about that ?)
- Italy and later, Rumania, Bulgaria, Hungary, Finland and even Yugoslavia (before a coup changed that) joined the axis
- Sweden supplied half the iron that Germany used and allowed German soldiers to transit through its territory
- Britain and France did not want to enter into an alliance with the USSR in summer 39

Under these circumstances, it very much looked like had the USSR opposed Hitler over Poland it would have found itself at war with Germany..... Since Britain and France (and the US) had been falling over backwards to avoid war with Germany why exactly would one expect that the USSR should take on Germany ?

I think the key lesson of WW2 is being forgotten by Europeans and the US. Europe (and the US) are COLLECTIVELY responsible for WW2........ Not a single country comes out well when you check the facts.
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