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Old December 5th, 2012, 04:14 AM   #31

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I believe bad British WWII tank design was for most part result of lack of good tank engines. British relied on aircraft engines which are principally designed for totally different use.

Of course bad doctrine (dividing tanks in to infantry and cruiser categories) also played role.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 04:19 AM   #32

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To be fair, who did operate tanks in the inter-war years?
Soviets.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 05:00 AM   #33

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Matilda was wrong tank for wrong war. Bad chassis, weak gun without HE ammunition, totally inadequate mobility. Its only advantage was strong armour.

It was basically turtle. Well protected but otherwise helpless.

It was designed for WWI.
The Matilida II was one of the best tanks of the early war period, its 2pdr gun was better than the German 37mm fitted to their early war tanks and its armour was proof against the majority of Axis A/T weapons in this period. It's main failing was the size of the turret ring which meant it couldn't be upgunned later in the war.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 05:25 AM   #34

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"its 2pdr gun was better than the German 37mm fitted to their early war tanks"
Really?
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Old December 5th, 2012, 05:27 AM   #35

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Originally Posted by arras View Post
I believe bad British WWII tank design was for most part result of lack of good tank engines. British relied on aircraft engines which are principally designed for totally different use.

Of course bad doctrine (dividing tanks in to infantry and cruiser categories) also played role.
If you're talking about the Nuffield built Liberty engines then it was more due to their advanced age (designed 1917) weight and lack of power than their being aircraft engines, the Meteor was a good power unit.

Aircraft engines are designed to be light and high power, thats useful. Its not like the British were the only ones using them the Wright R-975 aircraft engine went into the M2, M3 Lee, M4 Sherman and the Hellcat tank destroyer, The Continental R-670 from the Stearman trainer went into M1 combat cars and M3 Stuarts and those are all radials.

The Most common engine in the Sherman was the Ford GAA v-8 which was also designed as in inline aircraft engine and was going spare because the US navy rejected it, preferring radial engines.

The point about aircraft engines is that theyre used over huge distances such as oceans so theyre designed for lightness, reliability and simplicity with a side view of making sure nothing shakes off mid-flight, something car engines dont have to worry about since you can pull over at the side of the road.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 05:43 AM   #36

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If you're talking about the Nuffield built Liberty engines then it was more due to their advanced age (designed 1917) weight and lack of power than their being aircraft engines, the Meteor was a good power unit.

Aircraft engines are designed to be light and high power, thats useful. Its not like the British were the only ones using them the Wright R-975 aircraft engine went into the M2, M3 Lee, M4 Sherman and the Hellcat tank destroyer, The Continental R-670 from the Stearman trainer went into M1 combat cars and M3 Stuarts and those are all radials.

The Most common engine in the Sherman was the Ford GAA v-8 which was also designed as in inline aircraft engine and was going spare because the US navy rejected it, preferring radial engines.

The point about aircraft engines is that theyre used over huge distances such as oceans so theyre designed for lightness, reliability and simplicity with a side view of making sure nothing shakes off mid-flight, something car engines dont have to worry about since you can pull over at the side of the road.
Nice. You maybe able to answer this for me. The V-12 in the T-34, was it ever used as a airship engine?
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Old December 5th, 2012, 05:58 AM   #37

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I doubt it, its listed as being designed and produced by the Kharkiv locomotive factory which makes sense most diesels of the period were used for trains and marine engines where their better torque and greater weight wasnt a problem.

The only people to use aircraft diesels engines were the Junkers Jumo 205s
Junkers_Jumo_205 Junkers_Jumo_205
and they were too complex for useful combat service. It makes sense they tried it though, Germany was the world leader in diesels technology so it was probably worth a shot.

Effectively diesels were a new technology for aviation and vehicles, they had a lot of teething problems with ignition and fuel storage that hadnt been ironed out while petrol engines were current and well understood. Add the extra weight of a diesel and they didnt do well in the air.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 06:12 AM   #38

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The Matilida II was one of the best tanks of the early war period, its 2pdr gun was better than the German 37mm fitted to their early war tanks and its armour was proof against the majority of Axis A/T weapons in this period. It's main failing was the size of the turret ring which meant it couldn't be upgunned later in the war.
2pdr was slightly better in penetration than German 37mm but both were obsolete already by the beginning of war. If not beginning then certainly in 1940. But I newer claimed German early tanks were excellent. However they certainly were much better mix of protection, fire-power and mobility.

Matilda was not so much a tank as it was mobile pillbox.

It would certainly made good weapon ...for different war.

Last edited by arras; December 5th, 2012 at 06:22 AM.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 06:20 AM   #39

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Aircraft engines are designed to be light and high power, thats useful.
Aircraft engines are designed to give maximum power at minimum weight and size. Result is powerful engine which is overcomplicated, difficult to maintain and not very durable and not very fuel effective (just look at Merlin). At last in-line aircraft engines are. But it apply to radial engines as well.

Not good combination for tank.

Use of aircraft engines in Allied tank design was basically stop gap solution because there were no dedicated automobile engines available with enough power.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 06:38 AM   #40
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...use of aircraft engines in Allied tank design was basically stop gap solution because there were no dedicated automobile engines available with enough power.
Germany also lacked a powerful engine at the start of the war
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