Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > Themes in History > War and Military History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

War and Military History War and Military History Forum - Warfare, Tactics, and Military Technology over the centuries


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old January 15th, 2013, 03:12 AM   #291

Naomasa298's Avatar
Bog of the Year
 
Joined: Apr 2010
From: T'Republic of Yorkshire
Posts: 20,894

Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Wilson View Post
Biological warfare seems to be the most realistic alternative and/or a more old-fashioned poisoning of the soldiers at the Death Star Complex at Mount Pleasant. (There has been written a novel where this was how the islands were to be taken in a Falklands War 2.) Once a sufficient number of them are knocked out, the Argentinians fly in troops. It's a very short flight from Argentina.

This would of course have to be done whilst the RN ships that is supposed to on patrol in the South Atlantic, happens to be somewhere else. It shouldn't be too difficult to cause some kind of drama a few days sailing away, which the ship will have to attend to. And it's not as if the ship is in the area all the time neither.

One also needs to make sure there are no nuclear subs in the vicinity. This can be done by bribing or blackmailing a crew member or other serviceman to alert when the sub has left. It's not as if you can't find 'a few rotten oranges in the basket'. The shooting incident onboard HMS Astute says it all.

Once the Argentinians have secured the base at Mount Pleasant, then it's really a question of transporting as many soldiers and as much supplies as they can before a Type 45 and an Astute arrives on the scene.

For Britains sake, let's hope there are several canteens at Mount Pleasant and that areas can be sealed off if contaminated by biological weapons.
While that is, in theory possible, the international reaction to Argentina using NBC weapons in an attack would pretty much guarantee they'd lose the war. The USA could not possibly allow an NBC using "ally" in its back yard, I'm sure they'd be willing to support the UK with a Nimitz or two.
Naomasa298 is offline  
Remove Ads
Old January 16th, 2013, 12:29 AM   #292

Redbad's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: May 2012
From: Alaska, USA
Posts: 2,083

Quote:
Originally Posted by bartieboy View Post
Well correct me if I'm wrong but weren't it the Europeans who helped the Americans in Korea?
And weren't it the Americans who got support from Britain in invading Iraq?
The Kurdish region of Iraq recently cut a gas deal with Turkey. That gas will be headed to Europe via Turkey soon enough. That's less Russian gas Europe has to rely on. It's a mini version of the Nubucco line that has yet to get started.

Don't forget, not all EU members were pro Nordstream. The Germans and Dutch were all for the Nordstream project, but the Estonians and Poles have a different view.

One other thing, a few large European oil companies are doing a bang up business in Iraq atm including BP (UK), ENI (Italy), and a Spanish oil and gas company.
Redbad is offline  
Old January 16th, 2013, 03:22 AM   #293
Lecturer
 
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 275

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naomasa298 View Post
While that is, in theory possible, the international reaction to Argentina using NBC weapons in an attack would pretty much guarantee they'd lose the war. The USA could not possibly allow an NBC using "ally" in its back yard, I'm sure they'd be willing to support the UK with a Nimitz or two.
obviously this is all in the 'fantasy giants' realm of thought, but if Argentina did use B/CW against MPA, the UK would respond with its own WMD long before the US got around to responding.

i think about 25 minutes is the flying time for a TridentII D5 missile from the UK SSBN patrol area in the north east Atlantic to Argentina, who's naval bases and military airfields would get very warm indeed...

my own view is that Argentina does not have the combat power to take the islands in the face of the current UK forces on the Islands, either by land or sea assault, but what it does have is the combat power to launch attacks, and that those attacks could be costly indeed.

now, internal political factors in Argentina - and the correlation of forces - mean that such an attack is extremely unlikely, however the previous invasion was caused when a previous government was in deep political trouble and needed a 'win' to placate the population.

inflation in Argentina is currently about 30%, Argentine state assets are being impounded across the world because its defaulted on its debts, (the Argentine President Mrs Fernadez-Kirchner will be using a hired British commercial jet to undertake her upcoming LatAm/Middle-East tour because the Argentine government is concerned that if she uses the Argentine Air Force Presidential aircraft, it will be seized by creditors. just imagine how embarrassing that is...), and Mrs Fernadez-Kirchner has been accused in the Argentine media of increasing her personal wealth by over 1000% since she because President.

the paranoid might think there was some correlation...
Dried Fruit is offline  
Old January 16th, 2013, 05:54 AM   #294

Linschoten's Avatar
nonpareil
 
Joined: Aug 2010
From: Wessex
Posts: 9,739
Blog Entries: 11

The point is, though, that any attacks that it did launch would be more costly for the Argentinians than it would be for the British, and those in power in Argentina cannot hope to gain credit at home through an easy victory abroad as on the previous occasion.
Linschoten is offline  
Old January 16th, 2013, 06:33 AM   #295

caldrail's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,785

Quote:
my own view is that Argentina does not have the combat power to take the islands in the face of the current UK forces on the Islands, either by land or sea assault, but what it does have is the combat power to launch attacks, and that those attacks could be costly indeed.
My way of thinking. There is nothing to stop Argentina from launching helicopters from civilian cargo vessels closer to the islands. Some modification work to the ships would be necessary, to remove obstructions such as cranes and rigging and provide stable platforms for operations, but nothing beyond their current capability.
caldrail is offline  
Old January 16th, 2013, 06:41 AM   #296

Linschoten's Avatar
nonpareil
 
Joined: Aug 2010
From: Wessex
Posts: 9,739
Blog Entries: 11

Yes, but what on earth would be the point?
Linschoten is offline  
Old January 16th, 2013, 06:51 AM   #297
Lecturer
 
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 275

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linschoten View Post
The point is, though, that any attacks that it did launch would be more costly for the Argentinians than it would be for the British, and those in power in Argentina cannot hope to gain credit at home through an easy victory abroad as on the previous occasion.
i'm not convinced about that, i have a nasty feeling that CFK would actually get a lot of political credit within Argentina, in Latin America, and around the wider world if she were able to portray Argentina as being the downtrodden victim of overwhelming British military superiority.

its a track she's already on, and at least publicly some states around the world are buying it - if, for example, she were to send half a dozen A-4AR Skyhawks out to the FI, they were tracked by the big search radars on the Islands, RAF Typhoons were scrambled and the Skyhawks shotdown within the 12 mile limit around the Islands - i have no doubt that a very large majority within Argentina would blame the UK for 'aggression' rather than CFK for sending obsolete warplanes over the territory of another state with the obvious consequences, and a large number of countries would, or would pretend to, agree with them.
Dried Fruit is offline  
Old January 16th, 2013, 06:55 AM   #298

Linschoten's Avatar
nonpareil
 
Joined: Aug 2010
From: Wessex
Posts: 9,739
Blog Entries: 11

Although other countries in South America might give lip service to Argentina's claims, and even feel some emotional sympathy, I doubt that they greatly concerned about the matter. If Argentina engaged in pointless and unsuccessful aggression, I think it would be more likely to lose support than gain it. Do you think that even this strange woman would send out Argentinian pilots on a kamikaze mission?
Linschoten is offline  
Old January 16th, 2013, 06:59 AM   #299
Lecturer
 
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 275

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linschoten View Post
Yes, but what on earth would be the point?
two points: firstly CFK needs to be seen to be 'doing something' on the issue - she's been banging on about it for ages and got nowhere, and the economy is in the toilet. she needs to be seen having some success or a least looking like she's trying to have some success.

secondly, an Argentine 'civilian' protest camp with attendent media on the FI presents a big problem for the British - there simply aren't enough civil policemen on the Islands to arrest them all and put them on a ship to montevideo, they can't shoot them or sink the ship they came on, so they'll have to resort to using soldiers from the garrison - and soldiers, even unarmed soldiers, arresting and man-handling civilian protesters never looks good on TV.
Dried Fruit is offline  
Old January 16th, 2013, 07:10 AM   #300

Linschoten's Avatar
nonpareil
 
Joined: Aug 2010
From: Wessex
Posts: 9,739
Blog Entries: 11

Some stunt involving civilians alone would be a much better bet, I think, than anything involving military activity.
Linschoten is offline  
Reply

  Historum > Themes in History > War and Military History

Tags
bashing, falklandsget, ready


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Getting the Economy ready for WWI Isoroku295 War and Military History 11 December 7th, 2010 07:35 AM
Hitler-bashing is boring. throughthepastdarkly European History 230 August 23rd, 2010 02:21 PM
Getting ready in the summer... ttanner History Teachers 2 May 30th, 2009 12:50 PM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.