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Old February 3rd, 2013, 04:03 PM   #11

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Wasn't Mexico linked to the Phillipines in some way? Through trade of goods iirc?

That may explain any phillipino influence on martial arts and vice vera.
Yes, there was a lot of trade in the time of the Spanish Empire and maybe for some time after that. Apparently Mexican sombreros became popular in the Philippines that way.
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Old February 8th, 2013, 12:00 PM   #12

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Did they have them? Sure. The evidence is there that they had Martial Arts but the evidence of what that art was is not there. Lost and gone forever unfortunately.

I'm not surprised there is a group out there claiming to teach "Aztec Martial Arts". They are just like the many other groups claiming to teach viking, roman, ancient Greek, alien, cromagnon man,...etc...."Martial Arts". They are simply making it up and claiming false ancient lineages. Although there are many Martial Arts today who claim ancient lineages and they are no more ancient than the 20th Century AD.

"Even the concept of the sword is found in the Macuahuitl more or less."
I don't think he understands the concept of the sword, more or less.
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Old February 8th, 2013, 12:17 PM   #13

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Yes, there was a lot of trade in the time of the Spanish Empire and maybe for some time after that. Apparently Mexican sombreros became popular in the Philippines that way.
Sorry I missed this

Thanks for the info. This would certainly explain influences going either way then, as trade usually flows through different colonies of an empire.

Would you say they developed Escrima, this way, or methods similar to Escrima? It would be viable, imo, given the nature of the discipline.
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Old February 8th, 2013, 01:38 PM   #14

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Would you say they developed Escrima, this way, or methods similar to Escrima? It would be viable, imo, given the nature of the discipline.
The Aztecs developing methods similar to escrima? or are you referring to...
"That may explain any phillipino influence on martial arts and vice vera." ????

You would have to be able to document some influence from Europe to the Philipines and to the Aztecs and so on and so forth. i don't see that being possible since we do not know what the Art the Aztecs practiced. Making a connection from Europe to the Philipines is hard enough. Or even finding out what the Art they practiced in the Philipines prior to the Europeans is impossible. They didn't have any written records. We cannot know what the Art was even though we know there was an Art. Mind bottling isn't it.

It's still all speculation that cannot be confirmed yea or nay.
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Old February 8th, 2013, 01:43 PM   #15

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The Aztecs developing methods similar to escrima? or are you referring to...
"That may explain any phillipino influence on martial arts and vice vera." ????

You would have to be able to document some influence from Europe to the Philipines and to the Aztecs and so on and so forth. i don't see that being possible since we do not know what the Art the Aztecs practiced. Making a connection from Europe to the Philipines is hard enough. Or even finding out what the Art they practiced in the Philipines prior to the Europeans is impossible. They didn't have any written records. We cannot know what the Art was even though we know there was an Art. Mind bottling isn't it.

It's still all speculation that cannot be confirmed yea or nay.
Indeed so. Im just trying to make a relation to the op, who does indeed mention Escrima
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Old February 8th, 2013, 01:52 PM   #16

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Indeed so. Im just trying to make a relation to the op, who does indeed mention Escrima
Oops missed that. I would say the macauhtil would definitely be more like a stick than a sword. The reason for calling it a sword is not because it is used like a sword. It is a club with razor sharp obsidian and not really a sword in use.

Would it be similar to Eskrima? Again no way to know for sure.
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Old February 8th, 2013, 01:59 PM   #17

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Oops missed that. I would say the macauhtil would definitely be more like a stick than a sword. The reason for calling it a sword is not because it is used like a sword. It is a club with razor sharp obsidian and not really a sword in use.

Would it be similar to Eskrima? Again no way to know for sure.
I would agree that notihng is really known of the Aztec styles (if they did have any?) to make a definitive assessment, althoug Escrima is in essence largely revolved around Stick-fighting. With Spain being in control of the new world, it wouldn't be completely impossible for variants to travel between places. Just educated guesses though
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Old February 8th, 2013, 02:18 PM   #18

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, althoug Escrima is in essence largely revolved around Stick-fighting. With Spain being in control of the new world, it wouldn't be completely impossible for variants to travel between places. Just educated guesses though
But then the question would have to be raised as to ....
Why would stick fighting from a backward tribes people be needed in Europe where the most sophisticated Martial Arts in the world were conquering the world? Not meaning to sound rude in anyway just pointing out the obvious.

Also, The Europeans were familiar with their own stick fighting. What do the Martial Arts of the Philipines have to offer Europe?

The Philipinos may be saying the same thing. What do these hairy barbarians have to offer us to our Art?
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Old February 8th, 2013, 02:28 PM   #19

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But then the question would have to be raised as to ....
Why would stick fighting from a backward tribes people be needed in Europe where the most sophisticated Martial Arts in the world were conquering the world? Not meaning to sound rude in anyway just pointing out the obvious.
Why not?

Martial arts is about expression and many martial arts assimilate. We are not talking about the importing of the system to Spain though are we. We are talking about the Aztecs being exposed to other systems. If trade was frequent between the countries, then I don't see why they could not have been exposed to it through proxy.

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Also, The Europeans were familiar with their own stick fighting. What do the Martial Arts of the Philipines have to offer Europe?
New fighting styles, new techniques. Again though, we are not talking about exposure to the continent, but a frontier colony.

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The Philipinos may be saying the same thing. What do these hairy barbarians have to offer us to our Art?
Indeed they might, although they may be more prone to protecting their secrets, than Eurpoeans would be
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Old February 8th, 2013, 03:16 PM   #20

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Why not?
Why Not? Because they don't need it. They had their own. Stick fighting is not as important as the plethora of other weapons of the day in close combat either.

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Martial arts is about expression and many martial arts assimilate. We are not talking about the importing of the system to Spain though are we. We are talking about the Aztecs being exposed to other systems. If trade was frequent between the countries, then I don't see why they could not have been exposed to it through proxy.
Martial Arts is not about self expression. At least Martial Arts then. The term has a different meaning today. Wrong kind of art. Not fine arts. The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture....This is not used as a definition of art until after 1600. The Art in Martial Art is the old definition. Skills acquired by experience, study, and observation. A branch of learning.
Are we talking about exposure now? Or different arts influencing each other? I thought we were discussing the latter. Exposure by proxy does not equate to influencing each others arts. Would this not be especially true in relation to Martial arts?


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New fighting styles, new techniques. Again though, we are not talking about exposure to the continent, but a frontier colony.
What new techniques? What new fighting styles? What constitutes a fighting style? What do we use as a standard for comparison?
Would the frontier colonist not have come from Spain and be familiar with the indiginous Martial Arts of Europe?
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