 | | War and Military History War and Military History Forum - Warfare, Tactics, and Military Technology over the centuries |
July 28th, 2006, 05:05 AM
|
#1 | | Historian
Joined: Jun 2006 From: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,348 | Most decisive battles of each era
Pick the most decisive battle fought in each era.
1 Ancient: -500 A.D.
2 Medevial: 501-1500
3 Early Modern: 1501-1700
4 Modern: 1701-
| | |
| |
July 28th, 2006, 08:09 AM
|
#2 | | Lecturer
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 257 |
Zama
Tours
Waterloo
| | |
| |
July 28th, 2006, 12:14 PM
|
#3 | | Archivist
Joined: Jul 2006 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Posts: 195 |
Ancient: Thermopoly
Medieval: Tours, or Bannockburn
Early Modern: not sure, most likely late Chinse dealings
Modern: Waterloo
| | |
| |
July 28th, 2006, 03:05 PM
|
#4 | | Historian
Joined: Jun 2006 From: Sanford, NC Posts: 1,036 |
Cannae
Tours
Chancellorsville
| | |
| |
July 28th, 2006, 04:48 PM
|
#5 | | Lecturer
Joined: Jun 2006 From: Virginia, United States Posts: 309 |
Since it's come up a lot, let me just give a quick history lesson. Waterloo was a decisive battle, but it was Leipzig in 1813 that effectively undid Napoleon. Waterloo just confirmed the result. I'm going to give a series of decisive battles in each era since choosing just one is a hopeless adventure. I originally posted the following list in another forum:
1. Ancient
-Battle of Marathon (490 BCE): One of the first meetings between 'East and West,' it was also one of the most decisive. The Greeks inflict 6,400 casulaties on a Persian army of 25,000 and Darius' campaign is brought to a premature halt.
-Battle of Leuctra (371 BCE): Epaminondas and Thebes utilize unique tactics to crush the Spartan army and 'deliver' Greece from the Spartan yoke. Unfortunately, Theban domination of Greece is itself short-lived.
-Battle of Gaugamela (331 BCE): A Greco-Macedonian army under Alexander defeats a much larger Persian force for the last time, clearing the way to Persepolis and all but bringing the end of the Persian Empire.
-Battle of Cannae (216 BCE): Arguably the greatest tactical masterpiece in all of military history, Hannibal routs the last major Roman army in Southern Italy, causing about 50,000-60,000 losses out of 80,000.
-Battle of Carrhae (53 BCE): The famed 'Parthian shot' seals Roman chests with a hail of arrows, and just like that Crassus' army disintegrates. Crassus is captured and killed.
-Battle of Actium (31 BCE): The final action in the Roman Civil Wars happens to be a naval battle, and what a fine one it was too. Anthony and Cleopatra are defeated by Octavian, who four years later goes on to make Rome an empire.
-Battle of Guandu (202): Despite being outnumbered nearly 10-to-1, Chinese military maestro Cao Cao puts down a rebellion under Yuan Shao, the latter breaking with 70,000 casualties out of an army of perhaps 120,000.
2. Medieval
-Battle of Yarmuk (636): Undeniably one of the most significant battles in all history, a Muslim army under Khalid bin Walid annihilates the Byzantines and overruns Syria. This battle provides the basis for the modern domination of the Middle East and North Africa by Islamic societies.
-Battle of Tours (732): A Frankish army under Charless 'the Hammer' Martel destroys a larger Muslim invading force under Abdul Rahman. The battle is often characterized as having 'saved the West,' but in reality it was probably more of a huge symbolical victory. Muslim raids into the Rhone Valley of Southern France would continue for some time even after their defeat at Tours.
-Battle of Hattin (1187): A Crusading army is thrashed by Saladin's Muslims. The battle leads to the fall of Jerusalem, a prize that Christendom has to wait many decades to regain.
-Battle of Bouvines (1214): Often hailed as the battle that 'made modern France,' a Flemish-German army under Emperor Otto IV is destroyed by French King Philippe II and his vaunted knights. The breakup of the Anglo-German alliance contributes mightily to the resulting Magna Carta in 1215, when English nobles force King John to give them some more rights and privileges.
-Battle of Grunwald (1410): Polish-Lithuania abruptly halts and reverses decades and decades of expansion by the Teutonic Order.
-Battle of Agincourt (1415): The flower of French nobility goes down in this battle where Henry V nearly wins the Hundred Years War for England. Poor terrain leads to bungled French attacks, and had Henry V lived just a little longer than Charles VI, history might look very different today.
3. Early Modern
-Battle of Pavia (1525): Although certainly not the first time gunpowder weapons are used, Pavia is their most impressive showing to date. An Imperialist army under Charles V defeats the French in Italy in this battle, which is so decisive than not another one is fought in this theater for two more decades.
-Battle of First Paniput (1526): Babur's impressive victory leads to the establishment of the Mughal Empire, which dominates much of India until the 19th century. Babur has about 15-20 artillery pieces to his opponent's 0, and their presence proves very effective in the ultimate victory, confirming their utility in a non-European theater.
-Battle of Lepanto (1571): This engagement witnesses the permanent exclusion of Ottoman fleets from the Western Mediterranean. The Christian victory sees the last use of oared ships in perhaps their finest outing.
-Battle of Brietenfeld (1631): Perhaps the first modern battle, Gustavus Adolphus publicizes the Swedish System in deadly style. Linear tactics are more or less born here and Tilly's masses become a thing of the past.
-Battle of Rocroi (1643): Cavalry returns with a vengeance in this ultimate showdown between the French and the Spanish. Spanish tercios hold their own well enough, but French cavalry routs both Spanish wings and isolates the center, leading to a declining role for tercios in the following decades.
4. Modern
-Battle of Blenheim (1704): The finest masterpiece of Marlborough and Eugene leads to the loss of half of the opposing French army in an age often characterized by manouver and rigid protocols in strategy.
-Battle of Yorktown (1781): The last major battle of the American Revolution, a brilliant strategic conception by Rochembau leads to the greatest Franco-American victory of the war. Two years later, the British swallow pride and agree to America's independence.
-Battle of Trafalgar (1805): The most decisive naval battle in all of history, Trafalgar provides the basis for British naval domination that is not seriously threatened until World War II, over 100 years later.
-Battle of Austerlitz (1805): If ever the word 'sweet' could be used to describe war, then Austerlitz is one of the sweetest tactical transpirations in all of history. The victory marks the formal beginning of a near-decade under French domination for Europe.
-Battle of Leipzig (1813): Waterloo dominates many popular conceptions of the Napoleonic Wars, but this is the battle that really set the seal on the First French Empire. What at first turns out to be a normal defeat is transformed into disaster by the premature destruction of the Lindenau bridge, trapping 30,000 French soldiers on the other side of the Elster River.
-Battle of Gettysburg (1863): The second major Confederate offensive into the Union ends in failure again as a result of this battle. After Gettysburg, the military traffic begins to largely run from the North to the South.
-Battle of Tsushima (1905): The trouncing of the Russian fleet by the Japanese marks a major moment in world history, namely a non-European power (Japan) defeating a larger, hulking behemoth (Russia). As a result of this battle, Japan largely controls this part of the world until the Second World War.
-Battle of the First Marne (1914): A stunning strategic triumph, the First Marne compels German armies to retreat 30 miles, ruins the Schlieffen Plan, and keeps France in the war, ensuring a prolonged conflict so dreaded by the German General Staff. This French victory might well be the most impressive military triumph of the 20th century.
-Battle of Midway (1942): The battle that makes America a superpower, Midway results in the loss of four Japanese carriers and a dramatic reversal in the strategic situation in the Pacific. Before this battle, Japanese success seems unbroken, but their loss here is a dangerous premonition for the remainder of the war.
-Battle of Stalingrad (1942-1943): Stalingrad marks the turning point of the largest war humanity has ever known. The Germans lose their entire 6th Army and all the gains in the Caucasus.
| | |
| |
July 28th, 2006, 05:05 PM
|
#6 | | Archivist
Joined: Jul 2006 From: Vancouver Washington Posts: 173 |
1 Ancient: -500 A.D.
Themopoly
Carthage
2 Medevial: 501-1500
Acre
Hastings
Jerusalem
Agincourt
3 Early Modern: 1501-1700
Lutzen
Nordlingen
4.Modern 1701:
Poltava
Plassey
Quebec
Yorktown
Waterloo
Trafalgar
Leipzig
Balacava
Vicksburg/Atlanta
Sedan
Meuse Argonne
Stalingrad
Normandy
Seelow Hights/Berlin
Hiroshima/Nagasaki
| | |
| |
July 28th, 2006, 05:21 PM
|
#7 | | Academician
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 52 | Quote: |
Originally Posted by UberCryxic Since it's come up a lot, let me just give a quick history lesson. Waterloo was a decisive battle, but it was Leipzig in 1813 that effectively undid Napoleon. Waterloo just confirmed the result. I'm going to give a series of decisive battles in each era since choosing just one is a hopeless adventure. I originally posted the following list in another forum:
1. Ancient
-Battle of Marathon (490 BCE): One of the first meetings between 'East and West,' it was also one of the most decisive. The Greeks inflict 6,400 casulaties on a Persian army of 25,000 and Darius' campaign is brought to a premature halt.
-Battle of Leuctra (371 BCE): Epaminondas and Thebes utilize unique tactics to crush the Spartan army and 'deliver' Greece from the Spartan yoke. Unfortunately, Theban domination of Greece is itself short-lived.
-Battle of Gaugamela (331 BCE): A Greco-Macedonian army under Alexander defeats a much larger Persian force for the last time, clearing the way to Persepolis and all but bringing the end of the Persian Empire.
-Battle of Cannae (216 BCE): Arguably the greatest tactical masterpiece in all of military history, Hannibal routs the last major Roman army in Southern Italy, causing about 50,000-60,000 losses out of 80,000.
-Battle of Carrhae (53 BCE): The famed 'Parthian shot' seals Roman chests with a hail of arrows, and just like that Crassus' army disintegrates. Crassus is captured and killed.
-Battle of Actium (31 BCE): The final action in the Roman Civil Wars happens to be a naval battle, and what a fine one it was too. Anthony and Cleopatra are defeated by Octavian, who four years later goes on to make Rome an empire.
-Battle of Guandu (202): Despite being outnumbered nearly 10-to-1, Chinese military maestro Cao Cao puts down a rebellion under Yuan Shao, the latter breaking with 70,000 casualties out of an army of perhaps 120,000.
2. Medieval
-Battle of Yarmuk (636): Undeniably one of the most significant battles in all history, a Muslim army under Khalid bin Walid annihilates the Byzantines and overruns Syria. This battle provides the basis for the modern domination of the Middle East and North Africa by Islamic societies.
-Battle of Tours (732): A Frankish army under Charless 'the Hammer' Martel destroys a larger Muslim invading force under Abdul Rahman. The battle is often characterized as having 'saved the West,' but in reality it was probably more of a huge symbolical victory. Muslim raids into the Rhone Valley of Southern France would continue for some time even after their defeat at Tours.
-Battle of Hattin (1187): A Crusading army is thrashed by Saladin's Muslims. The battle leads to the fall of Jerusalem, a prize that Christendom has to wait many decades to regain.
-Battle of Bouvines (1214): Often hailed as the battle that 'made modern France,' a Flemish-German army under Emperor Otto IV is destroyed by French King Philippe II and his vaunted knights. The breakup of the Anglo-German alliance contributes mightily to the resulting Magna Carta in 1215, when English nobles force King John to give them some more rights and privileges.
-Battle of Grunwald (1410): Polish-Lithuania abruptly halts and reverses decades and decades of expansion by the Teutonic Order.
-Battle of Agincourt (1415): The flower of French nobility goes down in this battle where Henry V nearly wins the Hundred Years War for England. Poor terrain leads to bungled French attacks, and had Henry V lived just a little longer than Charles VI, history might look very different today.
3. Early Modern
-Battle of Pavia (1525): Although certainly not the first time gunpowder weapons are used, Pavia is their most impressive showing to date. An Imperialist army under Charles V defeats the French in Italy in this battle, which is so decisive than not another one is fought in this theater for two more decades.
-Battle of First Paniput (1526): Babur's impressive victory leads to the establishment of the Mughal Empire, which dominates much of India until the 19th century. Babur has about 15-20 artillery pieces to his opponent's 0, and their presence proves very effective in the ultimate victory, confirming their utility in a non-European theater.
-Battle of Lepanto (1571): This engagement witnesses the permanent exclusion of Ottoman fleets from the Western Mediterranean. The Christian victory sees the last use of oared ships in perhaps their finest outing.
-Battle of Brietenfeld (1631): Perhaps the first modern battle, Gustavus Adolphus publicizes the Swedish System in deadly style. Linear tactics are more or less born here and Tilly's masses become a thing of the past.
-Battle of Rocroi (1643): Cavalry returns with a vengeance in this ultimate showdown between the French and the Spanish. Spanish tercios hold their own well enough, but French cavalry routs both Spanish wings and isolates the center, leading to a declining role for tercios in the following decades.
4. Modern
-Battle of Blenheim (1704): The finest masterpiece of Marlborough and Eugene leads to the loss of half of the opposing French army in an age often characterized by manouver and rigid protocols in strategy.
-Battle of Yorktown (1781): The last major battle of the American Revolution, a brilliant strategic conception by Rochembau leads to the greatest Franco-American victory of the war. Two years later, the British swallow pride and agree to America's independence.
-Battle of Trafalgar (1805): The most decisive naval battle in all of history, Trafalgar provides the basis for British naval domination that is not seriously threatened until World War II, over 100 years later.
-Battle of Austerlitz (1805): If ever the word 'sweet' could be used to describe war, then Austerlitz is one of the sweetest tactical transpirations in all of history. The victory marks the formal beginning of a near-decade under French domination for Europe.
-Battle of Leipzig (1813): Waterloo dominates many popular conceptions of the Napoleonic Wars, but this is the battle that really set the seal on the First French Empire. What at first turns out to be a normal defeat is transformed into disaster by the premature destruction of the Lindenau bridge, trapping 30,000 French soldiers on the other side of the Elster River.
-Battle of Gettysburg (1863): The second major Confederate offensive into the Union ends in failure again as a result of this battle. After Gettysburg, the military traffic begins to largely run from the North to the South.
-Battle of Tsushima (1905): The trouncing of the Russian fleet by the Japanese marks a major moment in world history, namely a non-European power (Japan) defeating a larger, hulking behemoth (Russia). As a result of this battle, Japan largely controls this part of the world until the Second World War.
-Battle of the First Marne (1914): A stunning strategic triumph, the First Marne compels German armies to retreat 30 miles, ruins the Schlieffen Plan, and keeps France in the war, ensuring a prolonged conflict so dreaded by the German General Staff. This French victory might well be the most impressive military triumph of the 20th century.
-Battle of Midway (1942): The battle that makes America a superpower, Midway results in the loss of four Japanese carriers and a dramatic reversal in the strategic situation in the Pacific. Before this battle, Japanese success seems unbroken, but their loss here is a dangerous premonition for the remainder of the war.
-Battle of Stalingrad (1942-1943): Stalingrad marks the turning point of the largest war humanity has ever known. The Germans lose their entire 6th Army and all the gains in the Caucasus. | Thank god you are here with your superior wisdom
| | |
| |
July 28th, 2006, 07:16 PM
|
#8 | | Lecturer
Joined: Jun 2006 From: Virginia, United States Posts: 309 | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Gustav II Adolph 1 Ancient: -500 A.D.
Themopoly
Carthage
2 Medevial: 501-1500
Acre
Hastings
Jerusalem
Agincourt
3 Early Modern: 1501-1700
Lutzen
Nordlingen
4.Modern 1701:
Poltava
Plassey
Quebec
Yorktown
Waterloo
Trafalgar
Leipzig
Balacava
Vicksburg/Atlanta
Sedan
Meuse Argonne
Stalingrad
Normandy
Seelow Hights/Berlin
Hiroshima/Nagasaki | Good list. A bit Eurocentric, but many of these battles were politically and militarily decisive.
| | |
| |
July 29th, 2006, 02:53 PM
|
#9 | | Archivist
Joined: Jul 2006 From: Vancouver Washington Posts: 173 | Quote: |
Originally Posted by UberCryxic Quote: |
Originally Posted by Gustav II Adolph 1 Ancient: -500 A.D.
Themopoly
Carthage
2 Medevial: 501-1500
Acre
Hastings
Jerusalem
Agincourt
3 Early Modern: 1501-1700
Lutzen
Nordlingen
4.Modern 1701:
Poltava
Plassey
Quebec
Yorktown
Waterloo
Trafalgar
Leipzig
Balacava
Vicksburg/Atlanta
Sedan
Meuse Argonne
Stalingrad
Normandy
Seelow Hights/Berlin
Hiroshima/Nagasaki | Good list. A bit Eurocentric, but many of these battles were politically and militarily decisive. | Yes it is very Eurocentric, and I will freely admit that I don't know squat about military history from different parts of the world. I picked the battles on my list for there overall affect on the current era in the Western world.
| | |
| |
July 30th, 2006, 07:23 AM
|
#10 | | Lecturer
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 257 | question
Just out of curiousity, why would Thermopylae or Cannae be consider more "decisive" than Zama. Marathon and or Salamis was more important than Thermopylae in determining the outcome of that/those wars. Thermopylae was a wonderful battle to read about and it did indeed slow the Persians down a bit, but it amounted to nothing but a chance for the Spartans to boast for a while.
Cannae was a great battle...bloodiest day in the ancient world and influenced warfare for centuries, but it decided nothing at the time as the war raged on for many more years. Zama ended the war. Heck, Actium was more decisive in what it ultimately led to.
| | |
| | | Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.
|  |