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Old June 18th, 2013, 09:30 PM   #161

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McClellan was not the only period commander to raise units from scratch, train green units, and rebuild demoralized forces. Nothing I've seen indicates that McClellan was better at these tasks than other Union generals.
I will have to admit that most of the books and magazine articles I've read have focused more on the Eastern Theater of the war and predominantly the Army of the Potomac. So, I know that McClellan trained that army, but I'm not too terribly familiar training and organizational activities of other generals... particularly from the western theater of the war.
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Old June 18th, 2013, 10:28 PM   #162
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Says you
Armchair General Welcomes Carlo D?Este to Our Team! » Armchair General

ps: just noticed the article has a link to this page, not sure how ????????
How do you explain the dead end citation?
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The citation from the magazine is a dead end; they are pointing to page 128 of Nothing Less Than Full Victory: Americans At War In Europe, 1944-1945 By Edward G. Miller, on page 128 of that book is a story about the experiences of a Captain Hostrup: the name of the 7th Armored CO was Hasbrouck, not Hostrup and he was a brigadier general.

I don't see any source citation in the Montgomery bio.
And why would De Este use another author for a citation? And if you are at all familiar with De Este and you take the time to read just a few pages of Nothing Less Than Full Victory and you'll see right away that it is an "action" war story. De Este is a historian and an excellent writer, Edward Miller was a guy trying to make some money off a single book. Also, how do you explain the nonsensical statement: "The 7th Armored’s brilliantly orchestrated defense of St. Vith"? That line is utterly inappropriate to the actual circumstances at St Vith,

Your source is a fraud.



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Old June 19th, 2013, 03:36 AM   #163

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How do you explain the dead end citation?
I can't.
All I can think is that the web-page picks up links to it.

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And why would De Este use another author for a citation? And if you are at all familiar with De Este and you take the time to read just a few pages of Nothing Less Than Full Victory and you'll see right away that it is an "action" war story. De Este is a historian and an excellent writer, Edward Miller was a guy trying to make some money off a single book. Also, how do you explain the nonsensical statement: "The 7th Armored’s brilliantly orchestrated defense of St. Vith"? That line is utterly inappropriate to the actual circumstances at St Vith,

Your source is a fraud.
That's your opinion, nothing more.
If you know De Este so well I suggest you get in touch with him and alert him to it.

However, his position as consulting historian to the Armchair General magazine is referenced in this article on him.
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...124281019.html

Last edited by redcoat; June 19th, 2013 at 03:53 AM.
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Old June 19th, 2013, 05:39 PM   #164
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I can't.
All I can think is that the web-page picks up links to it.


That's your opinion, nothing more.
If you know De Este so well I suggest you get in touch with him and alert him to it.

However, his position as consulting historian to the Armchair General magazine is referenced in this article on him.
Historian Carlo D'Este to Receive 2011 Pritzker Military Library Literature Award for Lifetime... -- CHICAGO, June 21, 2011 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ --
We've derailed this thread enough.

We will have to agree to disagree on two things: Monty and The Armchair General website.
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Old June 19th, 2013, 08:02 PM   #165

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I will have to admit that most of the books and magazine articles I've read have focused more on the Eastern Theater of the war and predominantly the Army of the Potomac. So, I know that McClellan trained that army, but I'm not too terribly familiar training and organizational activities of other generals... particularly from the western theater of the war.
It's not just what you have read, most books and articles on the ACW focus on the Virginia Theater. There's more to the theater than McClellan and the Army of the Potomac. VII Corps was established in SE Virgina under Dix before McClellan became commander of the AotP. VIII Corps was created in the Shenandoah under Wool. The IX Corps was created by Burnside and first saw action in North Carolina. X Corps was formed from Union forces in South Carolina and Georgia, it later became part of Butler's Army of the James. Pope's Army of Virginia contained the I (later XI) corps organized by Fremont in the Mountain Department and the II (later XII) Corps organized by Banks in Shenandoah.
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Old June 22nd, 2013, 09:29 AM   #166

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Your response highlights why I feel AS Johnston richly deserves to be listed as one of the worst generals - "he acted too much the part of a brigade commander rather than as the theater commander". Johnston was not up to the task of theater commander. Johnston did not just fail as a battlefield commander, he failed to be a battlefield commander, abdicating the position to PGT Beauregard.
It is true. he was not up to the task of theater command. I just think that had he faced someone besides Grant at Shiloh, he probably would have succeeded there. He was not anything special, just mediocre really, but not horrible.

Last edited by nuclearguy165; June 22nd, 2013 at 09:37 AM.
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Old June 23rd, 2013, 03:52 AM   #167
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Actually, some of the worst generals in history were good at winning battles, but incapable of winning wars. Montgomery does not belong among the list of worst generals, though. While Market garden was a blunder, Montgomery's slow methodical approach in North Africa never gave a stunning victory, but it never gave Rommel an opening he could exploit, either.
Rommel exploited plenty of weaknesses when Monty was there. If he had had a fraction of the supplies he needed he'd have kicked Monty all the way to Cairo.
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Old June 23rd, 2013, 07:12 AM   #168

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Rommel exploited plenty of weaknesses when Monty was there. .
Rommel's battles against Monty were rather one sided...he lost all of them.
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Old June 23rd, 2013, 07:23 AM   #169

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Rommel exploited plenty of weaknesses when Monty was there. If he had had a fraction of the supplies he needed he'd have kicked Monty all the way to Cairo.
If he'd had a fraction of those supplies his men would have been in an even bigger fix. He wasn't up to running a small number of men lacking supplies. Running that same number of men and required to actually pay attention to logistics instead of pulling an Albert Sidney Johnston? Beyond his power.
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Old June 23rd, 2013, 07:29 AM   #170

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Meaning his refusal to admit defeat at a point when Germany politically was unwilling to admit this? Leaving Stalingrad equalled losing the entire campaign.
I mean for not showing some guts and ordering a breakout while they still had the chance to extricate at least some of the 6th.
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