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Old May 31st, 2009, 12:02 PM   #31

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Re: Culloden


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Originally Posted by PADDYBOY View Post
Bugger the squeams mate. What I want to know is, did Kid Shortbreid give Flora the Mac, one ?
Did he Hell.

Mind you he never got the chance - thanks to her family. Despite all the nonsense that's been written about them (and the innumerable hordes of idiots who claim to have been descended from their children), they never got it on.
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Old May 31st, 2009, 12:11 PM   #32

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Re: Culloden


Cul-lodair an pairt seathamh:-

The massacre of the wounded after the battle is normally referred to as a stain on the honour of the British Army. I disagree. These atrocities were carried out in the heat of battle (mostly), they are blamed on the soldiers, but those soldiers were obeying orders. Orders given by William Augustus, Duke of Cumberland. They earn him the well-deserved nicknames of “Butcher” Cumberland and “Stinking Billy” from the Jacobites and the not so well-deserved “Sweet William” from the Hanoverians.


What was inflicted on the people of the Highlands in especial tarnished forever the reputation of what can now be termed the British Army. I've seen what occurred after the battle described as a “counter insurgency campaign”. To me this is nonsense. It was genocide.


Lowland Scots are some of the most enthusiastic ethnic-cleansers of the Hanoverian commanders– Captain John Fergusson of the sloop HMS Furnace, and Captain Caroline (Yes, Caroline – our very own “Boy named Sue”) Frederick Scott of the 6th Foot (1st Warkwickshire Regiment – which was not present at Culloden) are arguably even more vicious than Stinking Billy himself. In early june 1746, Scott recieves an order from Cumberland to the effect that he should “not burn any more houses that day....”. Scott on receiving this order, says “It is no matter, Let them proceed in the burning. They are not in the knowledge of the orders.” On the same day, another of his patrols meets with three men near Glen Nevis. These men are on their way to Fort William to surrender their weapons. The redcoats hang them then and there, thereby showing their commander in his best light.


What is even more disgusting about the actions of the Hanoverians after the failure of the Rising is that the Acts of Poscription and Disarming are applied to the population of the highlands as a whole, Jacobite, Hanoverian and Neutral. Another thing is the over-reaction – banning garments, banning patterns and banning music?


“Banning music? You ask.” Yes, they also banned the playing of the bagpipe. Does that count?


Just to be giving you a flavour of it, heres an extract from the Act of Proscription:-
Quote:
"That from and after the first day of August, One thousand, seven hundred and forty-six, no man or boy within that part of Britain called Scotland, other than such as shall be employed as Officers and Soldiers in His Majesty's Forces, shall, on any pretext whatever, wear or put on the clothes commonly called Highland clothes (that is to say) the Plaid, Philabeg, or little Kilt, Trowse, Shoulder-belts, or any part whatever of what peculiarly belongs to the Highland Garb; and that no tartan or party-coloured plaid of stuff shall be used for Great Coats or upper coats, and if any such person shall presume after the said first day of August, to wear or put on the aforesaid garment or any part of them, every such person so offending…. For the first offence,shall be liable to be imprisoned for 6 months, and on the second offence, to be transported to any of His Majesty's plantations beyond the seas, there to remain for the space of seven years."
Drag Queen? This involves (yet again) Kid Shortbread, women and transvestism. On the 20th April, four days after he destroys the clan system. {side note: The clan system was, by this time, sorely in need of reform. It could have been achieved in many other ways, but then, that's history}Make no mistake, although his cousin, the Duke of Cumberland contributed greatly to this effort, Kid Shortbreid did the initial damage. Anyway, BPC arrives in Arisaig where he is supplied with new clothes. As it appears in the records, he got “ A sute of new Highland cloaths from Angus MacDonald of Boradale's spouse, the better to disguise him and to make him pass for one of the country.” After which himself is shipped off to South Uist for a bit, where he finds himself a new hobby (he becomes a world (or maybe galaxy)-class piss artist. (For the benefit of those who are not Scottish, Irish or even (gulp) English, this indicates a professional drinker).
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Old May 31st, 2009, 12:17 PM   #33

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Re: Culloden


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Did he Hell.

Mind you he never got the chance - thanks to her family. Despite all the nonsense that's been written about them (and the innumerable hordes of idiots who claim to have been descended from their children), they never got it on.

Ha ha. I vaguely remember you putting someone straight about that on another forum somewhere, an American I think ? claiming to be descended from the immaculate conception.
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Old May 31st, 2009, 03:51 PM   #34

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Re: Culloden


Thank you for setting the record straight.

Has there ever been a movie about all of this. This seems like a script in the making. Who would you have as your main actors?
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Old May 31st, 2009, 10:50 PM   #35

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A quality thread chookie....Well done.
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Old June 1st, 2009, 12:54 AM   #36

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Re: Culloden


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I personally think George II was a better king than James VIII cou'd ever have been
Wasn't Charlie acting as Regent at the time for this dad. Doesn't this mean that he would have effectively been the next ruler if he won? Do you think he would have been a good ruler?

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Galteeman, the way I see it is that '45 was doomed even before it began. Charlie at no time had the resources to win the war. Nor, in my opinion did he have the intelligence to listen to his advisers.

He was incomparably foolish in Coming to Scotland with only 7 men. Doing this should have warned the chiefs that he was another of those Staurts who believed in the "Divine Right". Wel, he eventually found out that the world didn't run to his agenda...

The French were essential to the success of the venture, but they gave only half-hearted (if that) support.
Mabye you are being a bit harsh on the poor fellow Chookie!
He had to try didn't he? Perhaps the French gave him the false impression that they would come once he got things moving. Mabye they were using him in some sort of Machiavelian scheme of theirs.
What would you have done if you were in his shoes?

Last edited by galteeman; June 1st, 2009 at 01:22 AM.
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Old June 1st, 2009, 11:11 AM   #37

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Re: Culloden


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Has there ever been a movie about all of this. This seems like a script in the making. Who would you have as your main actors?
A script in the making?? EEEEEK!!!

As for actors - anybody but Mel Gibson.
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Old June 1st, 2009, 11:38 AM   #38

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Re: Culloden


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Wasn't Charlie acting as Regent at the time for this dad. Doesn't this mean that he would have effectively been the next ruler if he won? Do you think he would have been a good ruler?
When the proclamation was read out in Glenfinnan, at the Raising of the Standard, it was in the name of James VIII, so Charlie boy was acting as regent, but he couldn't be king till James snuffed it.

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Mabye you are being a bit harsh on the poor fellow Chookie!
Harsh? I don't think so, I'm actually being remarkably fair. The Rising in 1745 was catastrophic for Scotland.

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What would you have done if you were in his shoes?
I don't really have a clue, but I like to think I wouldn't have moved without proper logistical support (and troops).
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 01:19 PM   #39

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Re: Culloden


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The Rising in 1745 was catastrophic for Scotland.
And particularly catastrophic for the Highlands - a sad chapter in history.
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