 | | War and Military History War and Military History Forum - Warfare, Tactics, and Military Technology over the centuries |
June 18th, 2009, 09:27 AM
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#51 | | Just me
Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 6,109 | Re: Deutchland/Germany NO - America/Isreal YES??? Quote:
Originally Posted by fledse Yeah, I also believe Germany will never gonna be like the 3rd Reich (Nazi and Hitler Regime) thoguh I am doubtful if Japan is never gonna be the facists again.
Lots of modern weapon systems are mostly first developed in Germany.
Tank, Self Propelled Howitzer, Jet-engine air crafts, gut submarines, army doctrines (blitzbergs), Rockets (it was first called "flying bomb") and rifles.
These are only to name few. (Actually, even Humanoid Robots were first planned by Nazi scientists, but failed of course since at the time technology could not support it)
Russians and Americans, after the fall of Berlin, develop all these weapons armed with the current war weapon systems based on German military technology in large part.
If there were no Germans in WW2, the modern warfare is still very obsolete (I am pretty sure on it)
It was just the past, and looks like it is not related to the future.
But, who knows the future? There might be someone crazy like Hitler, and people vote for him. And then He will try to develop better military, which will ruin the entire world.
I know most Germans hate Nazzism, but there are also very few Germans mainly in the "old Eastern German Regions," who are dreaming that one day they will pursue what Hitler wanted to establish. (Neo Nazi)
In the future, everything is possible, and what I meant by "without U.S., it was more difficult," is this.
So, until today, U.S. has been succesfully preventing any axis nation from taking place again.
Espeically if considering Japan and Germany national economy (2nd and 3rd largest economy in the world), it takes only few years to be armed with fascinating modern weapon systems.
Germans, in this point, still have 4th ranked Army Forces, following U.S., Russia, and China.
Japan, in this point has 2nd ranked naval forces, following U.S.
(Of course reasons Germans and Japan have that much military forces are that U.S. want them to defend the Free World from the Communists, and Germans were mainly against Soveit's Ground Forces while Japan for Soveit's Naval forces)
If Germans and Japan are seized by retarded "facists," you know, it takes only few years to be armed with ICBM, which will strike everywhere in the world, which is why I am saying it is more dangerous without U.S.
Isn't that way more dangerous world to live on than just retarded terrorists suicide attacks? | That really is a thought-provoking post. I did not know the modern world owed so much to Germay military-wise. Could you state your sources please, I'd like to read up on it. Thanks. Quote: |
But, when it comes to Isreali and Arbic Issue, I don't have any good reason to say, and think you are absolutely right.
| Israle-Palestine tussle is a hopeless one, isn' it? That's what I think anyway.
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June 18th, 2009, 09:51 AM
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#52 | | Superss
Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,499 | Re: Deutchland/Germany NO - America/Isreal YES???
fledse- Thanks yes we germans do have great technolghy back then,but to my shock and horror,the Jet engines were actually invented by the British.
germans just built the body to go with it!
Mmmm...I wonder what other german weapons were invented by the britsh? it makes me wonder LOL.
germany did have high tech weapons during ww2,but the brits invented the jet engine,us germans built the body!
You could even say it was a joint invention by the british and germans lol.
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June 18th, 2009, 10:57 AM
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#53 | | Lecturer
Joined: Feb 2009 From: Seattle Posts: 385 | Re: Deutchland/Germany NO - America/Isreal YES??? Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosicrucian That really is a thought-provoking post. I did not know the modern world owed so much to Germay military-wise. Could you state your sources please, I'd like to read up on it. Thanks. | O.K, I am assuming you also know German tanks are very developed, so for this source, you just need to find German tanks in wiki if my assumption is wrong. (Otherwise, why does everyone mostly think German tanks when they hear WW2 about Germany?) (the very 1st German howitzer).
And self-propelled howitzer was used by most major power in WW2, but German used it in massive amounts and took advantage of it as they went through operation of Barbarrosa.
Since self-propelled howitzer provides fast mobility, it protect our army from enemy, and attacks enemy army.
And in microscopic structure, U.S. and Allies launched " ,"which is to capture Nazi science to learn German's advanced science in order to achieve upper hand against Soviet Union.
U.S. authorities mainly examined and captured Rocketry and aeronautic scientists while Soviet union also did the similar operation and captured Army-related scientists.
Jet Engine aircraf. (video: )
If the fighter was produced 1 years ago (1943), the Allies would have been lots of trobules. It was introduced in 1944, when German Hauftbaher(air force) could not even maintain German mainland.
In air superiority, German air force could not fly the jet engine fighter.
For aircraft, the most critical moment is when they take off, and since the allies aircraft was everywhere and 24 hours in German main air port, even though German hauftbaher had the fighter, the fighter was not yet full condition, and it was just peace of cake for allies to crack down this fascinating German aircraft. V-1 and V-2 Rockets.
Everyone interested in history probably heard it, which is the 1st man made rockets. At the date, it was called " flying bomb."
So, German is the first one, who thought it would be fascinating to destroy enemy without pilots' sacrifice, and that is the primary reason they wanted to do.
One Nazi Scientists was captured by U.S., and sent to U.S., whose name is
Later, he was shaking hands with pres. John.F.Kennedy as a cheif director of NASA after NASA succesfully launched satelite into the orbit.
From NASA's quote, " without doubt, the greatest rocket scientist in history. His crowning achievement ... was to lead the development of the booster rocket that helped land the first men on the in July 1969." So, without former Nazi scientists, Americans might have lots of time to win the space race against Soviet, which I think Soviet was also capturing Nazi rocketry sceintists somewhere during WW2, and used them when Russians first launched satellite.
As you may know, satelite technology is just another face of ICBM like nuclear energy can be used as bomb or power plants.
And for others such as Blitzberg was great army doctrines at the date, and is being taught to every military school in the world as the most basic doctrine.
Blitzberg, to us who are living in the 21st century, is what the war should be, but at the time, it was not.
With Close Air Support (CAS), airforce confuse enemy and prevent them from contacting each other well, during which armored vehicles fastly break the defense lines. Following that, infantry is moving, and then surround the enemy from behind or flank side.
Then it is only piece of cakes to annihilate the enemy.
================================================== ======
Hopely this one provides you sources.
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June 18th, 2009, 11:09 AM
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#54 | | Lecturer
Joined: Feb 2009 From: Seattle Posts: 385 | Re: Deutchland/Germany NO - America/Isreal YES???
I think I forgot mentioning "the operation of Paper Clip."
Pres. Truman said those scientists who positively helped Nazi Regime and Hitler should be excluded in recruitment, but U.S. Defense Department did not wanna do so, for fear of being lost by the Soviet, who was also recruting Nazi scientists.
U.S. Defense Department mostly eradicated profiles that Nazi scientists had done during the WW2, and gave them new profiles that were of no trobles in terms of what the Operation of Paper Clip says.
I think it is worse to be lost every Nazi good scientists to Soviet than to falsely write up new profile and to bring these sceintists to U.S.
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June 18th, 2009, 11:14 AM
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#55 | | Lecturer
Joined: Feb 2009 From: Seattle Posts: 385 | Re: Deutchland/Germany NO - America/Isreal YES??? Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidi XX fledse- Thanks yes we germans do have great technolghy back then,but to my shock and horror,the Jet engines were actually invented by the British.
germans just built the body to go with it!
Mmmm...I wonder what other german weapons were invented by the britsh? it makes me wonder LOL.
germany did have high tech weapons during ww2,but the brits invented the jet engine,us germans built the body!
You could even say it was a joint invention by the british and germans lol. | Yes, you are absolutely right, I think I was screwed up there  .
But, it is of truth that German used the jet fighter as the operational fighter. It was first invented by British, but Germans were the first to deploy it to the battlefields while the allies were not.
With jet engine, they had to design new fighter body, armor and weapon system, and etc.
British invented it, but failed to develop it further in military needs, wherease German did anyhow. It will give some evidences.
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June 18th, 2009, 01:14 PM
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#56 | | Forum Curmudgeon
Joined: May 2009 From: A tiny hamlet in the Carolina Sandhills Posts: 11,246 | Re: Deutchland/Germany NO - America/Isreal YES??? Quote:
Originally Posted by fledse | Um...No. The ME163 was not a Jet, it was a rocket. Additionally, the ME262 was operational in April 1944, and the Komet not for another month. As revolutionary as it was, the Komet was not nearly as significant a weapon as the 262 because it was never produced in significant enough numbers to make an impact. http://www.xs4all.nl/~robdebie/me163/units.htm http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/...ft/p/me262.htm
Moreover, the British and Germans developed their own unique jet engine designs independently and concurrently. The Germans didn't just copy a British design. http://inventors.about.com/library/i...ljetengine.htm | | |
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June 18th, 2009, 04:38 PM
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#57 | | Lecturer
Joined: Feb 2009 From: Seattle Posts: 385 | Re: Deutchland/Germany NO - America/Isreal YES??? Quote:
Originally Posted by diddyriddick | Right, strictly speaking rockery engine is not jet engine, but in general, rocket engine is one of the two general types of jet engines. (one is rocket, another turbo engine.)
It is probably because rocketry engine is too fast to be categorized into "propelled engine."
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June 21st, 2009, 04:37 AM
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#58 | | Lecturer
Joined: Jun 2009 From: Laramie, Wyoming Posts: 268 | Re: Deutchland/Germany NO - America/Isreal YES???
btw, President Wilson did not support punishing Germany for its role in WWI, the French and British placed the restrictions on the German military.
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June 25th, 2009, 05:21 PM
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#59 | | Lecturer
Joined: Feb 2009 From: Seattle Posts: 385 | Re: Deutchland/Germany NO - America/Isreal YES??? Quote:
Originally Posted by Waleis btw, President Wilson did not support punishing Germany for its role in WWI, the French and British placed the restrictions on the German military. | That's probably because French and British were suffered a lot than Americans. Their living houses were destroyed, loved family were wounded, and no jobs for victorious French and British soldiers.
For Americans, it would be impractical to be attack by Germans again in the future, but for British and French, they would be main target by Germans in the future, which really did in Hitler's days.
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June 25th, 2009, 09:58 PM
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#60 | | Lecturer
Joined: Jun 2009 From: Laramie, Wyoming Posts: 268 | Re: Deutchland/Germany NO - America/Isreal YES???
In my earlier post I just wanted to clarify america's position on the matter of resolving the end of WWI. but that's a very good point you're making fledse, and I agree completely.
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