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Old July 3rd, 2009, 06:08 AM   #1
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top 100 military commanders in history


I propose we make a list (collectively of course) of the top 100 military commanders in history.

First, we will have people submit the folks they think deserve a place on the list, then I will re-post with a list of the names as I think people will want them placed, then we will make changes and debate, and I will post a conclusive list when everyone (ok not everyone, but a large portion of individuals) agree.


*no longer applicable, disregard this paragraph (below)*
edit: ok, here is the preliminary list, commentary is encouraged and I want to know if you guys think people should be moved around, after #10 or so it as kind of hard to decide. *no longer applicable, disregard this paragraph*



*****edit: see new list, below

*revision 9 below, votes have been taken into consideration:


1.Julius Caesar
2.Napoleon
3.Alexander the Great
4.Khalid Ibn Walid
5.Hannibal
6.Temujin
7.Subotai
8.Timur
9.Frederick the Great
10.Phillip II of Macedon
11.Scipio Africanus
12.Helmeuth von Moltke
13.Bai Qi
14.Yi Sun Shin
15.Gustavus Adolf the Great
16.Alexander Suvorov
17.Jan Zizka
18.Han Xin
19.Guo Ziyi
20.Yue Fei
21. Marshall Turenne
22. Arthur Wellesley
23. Attila the Hun
24.Baibars I al-fatih
25.Ilghazi
26.Tran Hung Dao
27.John Churchill, Duke of Marlborough
28.Eugene of Savoy
29.Claude Hector
30.Erich von Manstein
31.Narses
32.Belisarius
33.Chandragupta Maurya
34.Flavius Aetius
35.Simeon I of Bulgaria
36.Douglas MacArthur
37.Gieuseppe Garibaldi
38.Georgii Zhukov
39.Horatio Nelson
40.Nader Shah
41.Jebe
42.Samudragupta
43.Muqali
44.Richard I of England
45.Shivagi
46.Saladin
47.Tiglath-Pileser III
48.Gaius Marius
49.Maurice de Saxe
50.Heinz Guderian
51.U.S. Grant
52.Robert E. Lee
53.Erwin Rommel
54.Thomas J. Jackson
55.Maurice of Nassau
56.Pyrrhus of Epirus
57.Epaminondas
58.Baidar
59.Oda Nobunaga
60.Ptolemy I "Soter"
61.Judas Maccabeus
62.James Wolfe
63.Lucius Licinius Lucullus
64.Toyotomi Hideyoshi
65.Pericles
66.Tariq ibn Ziyad
67.Cyrus the Great
68.Lucius Cornelius Sulla
69.Köke Temür
70. Sir James Douglas (replaces: Robert de Bruce Moved down, 9/24/2009
71.Basil III
72.Abū 'Ubaidah ibn al-Jarrā
73.Isoroku Yamamoto
74.Demetrius of Bactria
75.Chu Yuan-chang
76.Pagondas
77.Sir Andrew de Moray (replaces: Flavius Heraclius 9/24/2009)
78.Li Shi Ming
79.Gebhard Leberecht von Blucher
80.Tuthmosis III
81.Nur al-Din
82.Tiberius
83.Gerd von Rundstedt
84.Michel Ney
85.Han Wu Ti
86.Ashoka
87.Charlemagne
88.Alexander Nevsky
89.Frederick Barbarosa
90.Philip II Augustus
91.Seleucus I "Nicator"
92.Batu Khan
93.Edward the Black Prince
94. Basil II (replaces: Edward III of England 9/24/2009)
95. Osman Ghazi
96. Sun Tzu
97. Zhuge Liang
98.Robert de Bruce (replaces: Charles Martel 9/24/2009)
99.Takeda Shingen
100.Uesugi Kenshin


Runners up (These guys didn't quite cut it, but may still be added provided enough evidence and concensus, in no particular order)

(101. Shaka Zulu)
(102. Ambiorix)
(103. Gnaeus Julius Agricola)
(104. Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa)
(105. Ariovistus)
(106. Arminius)
(107. Gaius Julius Caesar Octavian)
(108. Cao Cao)
(109. Cassander)
(110. Chandragupta Maurya)
(111. Demetrius I)
(112. Demetrius I of Bactria "The Invincible")
(113. Epaminondas)
(114.Eurybiades)
(115. Geiseric)
(116. Jugurtha)
(117. Magnus Maximus)
(118. Marcus Antonius)
(119. Miltiades)
(120. Mithridates VI)
(121. Nebuchadnezzar II)
(122. Perdiccas)
(123. Pompey)
(124. Louis Joseph Marquis de Montcalm)
(125. Sennacherib)
(126. Septimus Severus)
(127. Shapur I)
(128. Lucius Flavius Silva)
(129. Sima Yi)
(130. Surena)
(131. Themistocles)
(132. Tiglath-Pileser III)
(133. Tigranes The Great)
(134. Tiridates III The Great)
(135. Titus Quinctius Flamininus)
(136. Trajan)
(137. Vercingetorix)
(138. Vespasian)
(139. Wang Mang)
(140. Xiang Yu)
(141. Xenophon)
(142. Vortigern)
(143. Viriathus)
(144. Xerxes)
(145. Laksamana Keumalahayati)
(146. *Vacant* suggestions?)
(147. *Vacant* suggestions?)
(148. *Vacant* suggestions?)
(149. Wallia king of visigoths)
(150. Lautaro)

Last edited by Wobomagonda; September 24th, 2009 at 06:54 AM. Reason: Revision
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Old July 3rd, 2009, 07:09 AM   #2

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Re: top 100 military commanders in history


THIS IS THE WORST LIST I'VE EVER SEEN!!


Khalid idn Walid was far supirior to Saladain, I mean Saladin only really won a single decisive battle.

Baibars would have been destroyed by Subatai, regardless of his victory at Ayn Julat.

All these Muslim Generals but not the best, Kahlid, Mehmet, Sulymanie
Why would Arthur Wellesly, one of the worst stratgic Generals of his era (though the best organizer) be in the list, when the Duke of Marbolough is not?!

Michel Ney but not Davout the victory of Auderstat? or Desaix the victor of the Upper Eygpt Campaign?

Heinz Guderian doesnt belong in number 3.

All these Kings but not the best Kings of the era like Charles V and Suliyman the Magnificent?


And you have no Ancient Generals!?!?

Caser HELLO! Hannibal? Epaminondas? Alexander the Great?

And any list where Napoleon is not 1-2 really needs to rethink.
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Old July 3rd, 2009, 07:13 AM   #3
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Re: top 100 military commanders in history


perhaps you should read before you criticize, dolt.

I clearly stated they were in no particular order, that they were just some suggestions for some spaces on the list (after all there are 100 spaces) and that anyone can post any names they want. And all of the things you have said are your personal opinions, Saladin won a lot more than 1 battle, and Baibars was an excellent military commander by anyone's standards, he fought several enemies at the same time on multiple fronts and proved victorious, how is this not a good general.

Also, I know men like Moltke and the like need to be on here, which is why I also CLEARLY stated that people, such as yourself, could mention them.

read before you make yourself look foolish again.


And Napoleon hardly deserves a 1 or 2 spot anyways, his victories were great don't get me wrong, but his defeats were far more spectacular.

In terms of defeat I would say Napoleon coud be compared to Phyrrus of Epirus, he had several great victories, some of which were phyrric victories, but he will always be remembered for Waterloo, one of the greatest military defeats in history.
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Old July 3rd, 2009, 07:15 AM   #4

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Re: top 100 military commanders in history


You should put them in order.

And what other decisive battle did Saladin have?

Other then Hattin, nothing really stands out.


And I would limit the number to top 20,top 10
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Old July 3rd, 2009, 07:20 AM   #5
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Re: top 100 military commanders in history


no no, top 100. Saladin had several spectacular victories, I will go in-depth into them later, right now we should try to pick the top 10, then go into 20, then 30, then 40, up to 100.


Proposed for #1 I would say either Jan Zizka, Subutai, Napoleon, Genghis Khan, Julius Caesar, or Alexander the Great.


Mostly I put zizka in the running because he was outnumbered nearly 10 to 1 in every battle he fought and still won. that is quite impressive.
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Old July 3rd, 2009, 07:28 AM   #6
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Re: top 100 military commanders in history


ok, I'm going to place Subutai in space 1 for now.



1. subutai
2. open
3. open
4. open
5. open
6. open
7. open
8. open
9. open
10. open
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Old July 3rd, 2009, 07:30 AM   #7

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Re: top 100 military commanders in history


It would be foolish to even attempt to place these names in any order of rank. As already demonstrated, there's bound to be frivolous debate.
But how can any listing leave out
Caesar,
Hannibal,
Robert E. Lee,
Douglas MacArthur,
Simon Bolivar,
Thomas J. (Stonewall) Jackson,
Themistocles,
Rommel,
Patton,
George Washington,
Georgy Zhukov,
Scipio Africanus
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Old July 3rd, 2009, 07:35 AM   #8
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Re: top 100 military commanders in history


Good names. I want to come up with some kind of system to rank them.

how about we do it like this:

Name of General:
Battles Won:
Battles Lost:
Approximate Troops Lost:
Area before assumption of power (if applicable):
Area after assumption of power (if applicable):
Total soldiers lost in career:
approximate population of nation represented:
approximate area of nation represented:
Known for:


feel free to expand upon this criteria.
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Old July 3rd, 2009, 07:36 AM   #9

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Re: top 100 military commanders in history


Whew, that's a tall order Wobo. Good luck with that.
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Old July 3rd, 2009, 07:37 AM   #10
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Re: top 100 military commanders in history


actually I have a better idea, how about we list just the best 100, in no particular order, that will eliminate much of the argument and bickering.
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