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Old August 9th, 2009, 07:30 AM   #1
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Lusitania Sinking-Who's at fault?


Who is really at fault with the Lusitania sinking during ww1? British ship was packed with women and children and apprentalty not a war ship but there has been some reports that she was carring bullets and war equipment to briton! If this is true,does the german navy have any rights to attack a ship with women and children aboard ,even though she may be carring military equipment?
In history the British was blame for it,even though the Germans sunk the ship! Do you believe that was the right call,too blame the British? Or did the germans get away with murdering women & children?

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Old August 9th, 2009, 08:25 AM   #2

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Re: Lusitania Sinking-Who's at fault?


There is absolutely no doubt the ship bloody was carrying war material because this was on her cargo manifest. And she was owned, flagged, and operated by one of the belligerents. In this modern era, where people think nothing of bombing schools, hospitals, churches, and mosques that might be in use by their enemies, she would have been a legitimate target, and no one would have batted an eye at her destruction.

But the Great War occurred during a more civilized age, when in spite of the unimaginable hell of the trenches, people were trying to hang onto some vestige of the sensibilities and restraint that were so rapidly slipping away. There was also the matter of public opinion. The Germans were dufusses (dufii?) in this regard, and pretty much guaranteed to come across as Bag Guys whatever they did. The Brits, in contrast, were quite brilliant, and played the whole thing up as a tool to get the US into the War on their side.
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Old August 9th, 2009, 09:35 AM   #3

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Re: Lusitania Sinking-Who's at fault?


Dufessen?
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Old August 9th, 2009, 11:16 AM   #4

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Re: Lusitania Sinking-Who's at fault?


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Dufessen?
Brilliant!
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Old August 9th, 2009, 12:19 PM   #5

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Re: Lusitania Sinking-Who's at fault?


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Originally Posted by DesertPilot View Post
The Brits, in contrast, were quite brilliant, and played the whole thing up as a tool to get the US into the War on their side.
Don't forget there were Americans on board that died as well. 128 of them?
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Old August 9th, 2009, 01:09 PM   #6

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Re: Lusitania Sinking-Who's at fault?


A few facts about Lusitania :

Due to the risk of a coming war with Germany , Lusitania was fitted with armour above the waterline , and a spare cargo room was converted into a storage room for ammo ......... this reconstruction was done from may 12.th to july 21.st 1913 in Liverpool ( drydock) .........

War between Germany and Great Britain on august 4th. 1914.... Lusitania goes into drydock again and are fitted with platforms for canons .........
Lusitania is registered as Armed Merchant Cruiser in the british naval registry on september 17.th 1914 ..... from that date it is now part of the british navy ....

The Cunard line decides to continue sailing with passengers in a navy ship !!!

Captain Dow , the captain of Lusitania resigns on march 8.th 1915 , because he was no longer willing " to carry the responsibility of mixing passengers with munitions or contraband " !!!!! ..... the Cunard line appoints the more willing captain Turner ..........

Lusitania arrives at New York april 24, 1915 ...... loads ammo for England ( verified by later diving expeditions ) ......Cunard sells tickets for passengers .......

April 22, 1915 : the german embassy issues a warning ( even printed in newspapers next to the ad from Cunard for Lusitania ) , about the state of war , the warzones and info that vessels carrying the flag of Great Britain are liable to destruction .... and that travellers sailing on them are doing so on their own risk ...

May 1, 1915 : Lusitania is ready to sail from New York with 694 crewmembers , 1265 passengers ( at least 128 americans ) including women and children .....

May 6, 1915 , 7:50 pm ... Lusitania receives message about submarine activity off the coast of southern Ireland ....

May 7, 1915 , 11:02 am ... Lusitania ordered to go to Queenstown and changes direction .... british navy will later deny this .... captain Turner swore to his day of death, that he received this order .... and a transcript exists from the naval base of Valentia , showing that Lusitania confirmed receivement of the order on 11:02 am - most interesting this Lusitania order carries the wireless calling letters MFA ( Merchant Fleet Auxiliary ) ... again confirming Lusitania being a part of the navy as auxiliary navy ship ......

May 7, 1915 , 2:10 pm .... Lusitania hit by torpedo .......

After this, the british had a field day ... using the sinking of a passengership carrying defenceless passengers , to influence puplic opinion ..........

Difficult to place responsibility for all this .......Cunard is definitely to be blamed for part of this ..........
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Old August 9th, 2009, 01:33 PM   #7

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Re: Lusitania Sinking-Who's at fault?


Well, not a question with an easy answer (I like them ). Basically, the Germans get the blame for the sinking, the British for using an Armed Merchant Cruiser as a passenger ship and the Americans for allowing such a ship to be used as a liner.

But over and above that, Cunard have the ultimate responsibility for the loss of life. They were well aware of the:-
Quote:
german embassy issues a warning ( even printed in newspapers next to the ad from Cunard for Lusitania ) , about the state of war , the warzones and info that vessels carrying the flag of Great Britain are liable to destruction .... and that travellers sailing on them are doing so on their own risk ..
Tusind tak, Merlin.

I lay the largest share of the blame on Cunard, but neither the US or British governments are totally blameless.
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Old September 19th, 2009, 08:22 PM   #8

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Re: Lusitania Sinking-Who's at fault?


When you play with wolf,s you get bit.

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Old March 24th, 2011, 04:50 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin View Post
A few facts about Lusitania :

Due to the risk of a coming war with Germany , Lusitania was fitted with armour above the waterline , and a spare cargo room was converted into a storage room for ammo ......... this reconstruction was done from may 12.th to july 21.st 1913 in Liverpool ( drydock) .........

War between Germany and Great Britain on august 4th. 1914.... Lusitania goes into drydock again and are fitted with platforms for canons .........
Lusitania is registered as Armed Merchant Cruiser in the british naval registry on september 17.th 1914 ..... from that date it is now part of the british navy ....

The Cunard line decides to continue sailing with passengers in a navy ship !!!

Captain Dow , the captain of Lusitania resigns on march 8.th 1915 , because he was no longer willing " to carry the responsibility of mixing passengers with munitions or contraband " !!!!! ..... the Cunard line appoints the more willing captain Turner ..........

Lusitania arrives at New York april 24, 1915 ...... loads ammo for England ( verified by later diving expeditions ) ......Cunard sells tickets for passengers .......

April 22, 1915 : the german embassy issues a warning ( even printed in newspapers next to the ad from Cunard for Lusitania ) , about the state of war , the warzones and info that vessels carrying the flag of Great Britain are liable to destruction .... and that travellers sailing on them are doing so on their own risk ...

May 1, 1915 : Lusitania is ready to sail from New York with 694 crewmembers , 1265 passengers ( at least 128 americans ) including women and children .....

May 6, 1915 , 7:50 pm ... Lusitania receives message about submarine activity off the coast of southern Ireland ....

May 7, 1915 , 11:02 am ... Lusitania ordered to go to Queenstown and changes direction .... british navy will later deny this .... captain Turner swore to his day of death, that he received this order .... and a transcript exists from the naval base of Valentia , showing that Lusitania confirmed receivement of the order on 11:02 am - most interesting this Lusitania order carries the wireless calling letters MFA ( Merchant Fleet Auxiliary ) ... again confirming Lusitania being a part of the navy as auxiliary navy ship ......

May 7, 1915 , 2:10 pm .... Lusitania hit by torpedo .......

After this, the british had a field day ... using the sinking of a passengership carrying defenceless passengers , to influence puplic opinion ..........

Difficult to place responsibility for all this .......Cunard is definitely to be blamed for part of this ..........
More details, according to G. Edward Griffin in The Creature from Jekyll Island, pp. 247-255.

1) Because of her original design, and particularly modifications in 1913, she was entered in the Admiralty fleet register as an armed auxiliary cruiser, not a passenger ship.

2) Winston Churchill, First Lord of the Admiralty, stated British policy was 'to deter the Germans from surface attack. The submerged U-boat had to rely increasingly on underwater attack and thus ran the greater risk of mistaking neutral for British ships and of drowning neutral crews and thus embroiling Germany with other Great Powers.'

3) The munitions carried on Lusitania's fateful voyage included 6,000,000 rounds of ammunition and 1248 cases of shrapnel shells.

4) A destroyer (Juno) that was to have escorted the ship as it neared the British Isles was called away by the Admiralty - in essence, Churchill, leaving the Lusitania to sail into an area where at least one U-boat was all but guaranteed to be lurking.


Winston Churchill is probably more to blame for what happened to the Lusitania than any other individual.
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Old March 24th, 2011, 05:16 PM   #10

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knarly Dan View Post
More details, according to G. Edward Griffin in The Creature from Jekyll Island, pp. 247-255.

1) Because of her original design, and particularly modifications in 1913, she was entered in the Admiralty fleet register as an armed auxiliary cruiser, not a passenger ship.
She was never actually used as an auxiliary cruiser, the Admiralty decided not to use her in the role when war broke out. She was never fitted with weapons, she had a civilian crew, and she flew the flag of the merchant navy.
The German authorities were well aware of these facts.

Quote:
3) The munitions carried on Lusitania's fateful voyage included 6,000,000 rounds of ammunition and 1248 cases of shrapnel shells.
All perfectly legal. British passenger ships routinely carried war materials from the start of the war

Quote:
4) A destroyer (Juno) that was to have escorted the ship as it neared the British Isles was called away by the Admiralty - in essence, Churchill, leaving the Lusitania to sail into an area where at least one U-boat was all but guaranteed to be lurking.
The Lusitana was a fast ship, if she had kept up her speed and zig-zaged as per admiralty instructions she would have been at little risk.


In 1915 the German's broke the laws of war when they torpedoed the Lusitania without warning. The rules clearly stated that any passenger vessels even if they were carrying war materials had to be stopped, and a warning given to the crews and passengers in order for them to take to the lifeboats, before she could be sunk.
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