the greater general - Historum

**Isoroku295** · September 16th, 2009, 02:11 PM

short and sweet, you is greater, MacArthur (Korean Theater), or Patton?

**DIVUS IVLIVS** · September 16th, 2009, 06:58 PM

MacArthur, AmcArthur, and MacArthur.

Patton is one of the most overrated generals in WWII, these days MacArthur is one of the most underrated.

Jebusrocks · September 16th, 2009, 07:52 PM

I wouldn't say the Korean theater was MacArthur's best achievement (though it ranks up there).

As a captain, Patton, but as a commander and a leader, MacArthur. I personally think comparing Patton with MacArthur is like comparing Alexander with Caesar... which has been done so much in this forum that I'd rather not talk about it

Trizzo · September 16th, 2009, 09:01 PM

I agree about Patton being overrated.

It doesn't take a genious to win battles where he massivley outmans and outguns an opponenent in almost every area of combat. Lets face it, he had a **** load more tanks, a **** load more men, a **** load more resources, and lets not forget the USAF.

Now had the Germans had an extra 3 million men from the Eastern Front, then it would have been a fairer fight.

Come to think of it, its really hard to praise a General for brilliance when their victories are against inferior forces.

**DIVUS IVLIVS** · September 16th, 2009, 10:24 PM

Quote:

As a captain, Patton, but as a commander and a leader, MacArthur. I personally think comparing Patton with MacArthur is like comparing Alexander with Caesar... which has been done so much in this forum that I'd rather not talk about it

*scoffs*

Patton - better Captain? Please.

There pure and simple is no comparison between MacArthur and Patton. In that sense you are right about the comparison between Caesar and Alexander - in both comparisons one of them (Caesar and MacArthur, who has actually been dubbed the "American Caesar") towers above the other so much it is not funny - in strategy, tactics, logistics, leadership, statesmanship, etc, etc.

In all regards it is quite fair to say that MacArthur blasts Patton out of the water.

**Chookie** · September 17th, 2009, 10:56 AM

MacArthur or Patton?

No contest - MacArthur. While both men were egotistical glory-hounds, in MacArthurs' case there is the justification that he was extremely competent.

Patton on the other hand was pretty much uncontrollable - he had a record of ignoring orders from his superiors (Bradley at Army Group Centre (or Center) and Eisenhower as Theatre Commander).

**Lucius** · September 17th, 2009, 03:17 PM

Douglas MacArthur had been the US Army Chief of Staff from 1930-1935. In Korea, MacArthur, was the commander of all UN forces on land, sea, and in the air.

Patton understood the job of Field Army commander very well, but comparing him to MacArthur would be unfair.

I think it is fair to say that both men were controversial figures(with MacArthur, again, exceeding Patton).

Jebusrocks · September 19th, 2009, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIVUS IVLIVS

*scoffs*

Patton - better Captain? Please.

There pure and simple is no comparison between MacArthur and Patton. In that sense you are right about the comparison between Caesar and Alexander - in both comparisons one of them (Caesar and MacArthur, who has actually been dubbed the "American Caesar") towers above the other so much it is not funny - in strategy, tactics, logistics, leadership, statesmanship, etc, etc.

In all regards it is quite fair to say that MacArthur blasts Patton out of the water.

When has MacArthur ever even captained? The only time I can remember is his times in Phillipines, and if I recall correctly, he retreated out leaving America to suffer one of its greatest casualties (not necessarily his fault). All Patton ever did was captain armies, across North Africa and Western Europe, unlike MacArthur

**DIVUS IVLIVS** · September 19th, 2009, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jebusrocks

When has MacArthur ever even captained? The only time I can remember is his times in Phillipines, and if I recall correctly, he retreated out leaving America to suffer one of its greatest casualties (not necessarily his fault). All Patton ever did was captain armies, across North Africa and Western Europe, unlike MacArthur

You forget that MacArthur's career did not start in WWII - it started in WWI, in which he served as a general and was the most decorated American soldier. His performance in the Great War more than outshine's Patton's in WWII for me.

And in WWII MacArthur was most certainly not just the strategic genius devising brilliant plans for victory. More often than not he quite literally led from the front in a manner that Patton simply cannot match from what I know of him.

All told Patton has nothing on America's greatest general.

Jebusrocks · September 29th, 2009, 08:02 PM

Quote:

You forget that MacArthur's career did not start in WWII - it started in WWI, in which he served as a general and was the most decorated American soldier. His performance in the Great War more than outshine's Patton's in WWII for me.

You mean to say that MacArthur led his men straight into German lines into Paris in one-tenth the time predicted? Or conquering an island almost instantly when it took Montgomery months with small advancements? His basic blitzkrieg over Africa and Europe is unparalleled in American ranks and I'm pretty sure MacArthur would agree to that.

Patton also started his career in the Great War, where he led his men into what seemed like suicidal lines, but somehow survived with minimal casualties.

Quote:

And in WWII MacArthur was most certainly not just the strategic genius devising brilliant plans for victory. More often than not he quite literally led from the front in a manner that Patton simply cannot match from what I know of him.

Really... when? MacArthur rarely touched land when it was being hopped into..... Patton actually advanced with his men. The sheer ignorance in part of Patton was what made him such a great captain in times of modern warfare.

Quote:

All told Patton has nothing on America's greatest general.

In terms of accomplishment of the field, though Patton was great, I agree that it does not match up to MacArthur's Pacific Campaign and the Korean War, despite their setbacks. However, as a captain, Patton exceeds that of any other. There are reasons why Patton, as a person, was feared by the Nazis, and even though he was hated by his superiors they respected his skills and often considered to be one of the best assets in the entire US army.