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Old May 14th, 2010, 04:31 AM   #71

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Re: The Balkan war's


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Originally Posted by Irnik View Post
May be, before throwing sarcastic accusations to others you can have a look at whats happening in your back yard - Belguim. Is the genotype of the Dutch speaking people more different to that of the French speaking than the genotypes of the Balkan peoples? The political crisis in Belgium for the last 3 years is based on ethnic confrontation, right? You are too small to be a threat to UK, France or Germany and Russia is too far away to intervene, otherwise, the political crises would not be political only.
LOL so you immediately assume I'm a right-wing Walloon-hating flamingant?

This crisis is not as much ethnic as it is cultural cause it would be utterly ridiculous to assume that the Flemish and Walloons are ethnic groups. The difference in language is a real problem but they serve as a way to distract the public from thorough economic and political problems (the way it is used in discussions isn't constructive at all and political parties in this discussion only care for their own voting potential).
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Old May 14th, 2010, 04:51 AM   #72

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I am not assuming anything. I see you are from Belgium and despite the problems in your country based on language differences (all conflicts are economical, no mater if the official cause is to conquer lands, impose influence, gain rights, etc), you are throwing accuasions to people in another region who have similar (the genotype of all people in the Balkans is almost identical as it is in both parts of Belgium) problems.
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Old May 14th, 2010, 06:25 AM   #73

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Re: The Balkan war's


It wasn't meant as an accusation but rather as a generalised remark.
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Old May 14th, 2010, 11:51 PM   #74

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Terrific photos guys! I will be adding these to my collection. For the past six years (or possibly longer) I have been working on a Balkan Wars scenario for the computer game Civilization 2, but I have been unable to finish it to a standard I'm happy with. This thread and these photos have inspired me to take another look at what needs to be done to finish it of, so thanks
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Old May 15th, 2010, 01:00 AM   #75

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Re: The Balkan war's


I have noticed that the hats of the greek officers resembles the french officers hats at that time.
Here for example the french general Paul Pau:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...l_Paul_Pau.pngClick the image to open in full size.

Greek general Danglis:
Click the image to open in full size.
Not exactly the same, but there is some similiarity.
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Old May 15th, 2010, 03:04 PM   #76

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I believe Bulgaria's army received military training from Germany as the Ottoman's did after the Balkan Wars prior to the Great War. The Greek army was undergoing reorganization by a French military mission when the war began and this might explain the similarities in headgear. Was Serbia receiving training from one of the Great powers?
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Old May 15th, 2010, 03:38 PM   #77
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Re: The Balkan war's


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People really can't deal with that idea. Petty nationalist squabbles are more convincing to them.
With all due respect, I think GV's remark on the noxious effects of an overzealous national pride couldn't have been more general indeed for virtually all Homo sapiens.

It's just that for several reasons those effects are particularly notorious in the Balkans (therefore the term "Balkanization").

In fact, I have most personally attested some of those extreme effects in recent threads; plainly, an absolute suspension of rationality when the native pride is involved.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 10:40 AM   #78

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Even tho (as far as I have read) Serbia did violate terms of alliance agreement with Bulgaria, it was due to Bulgaria's stance that it won't help Serbia in its desire for territory that became Albania after the war. In the prewar agreement between Serbia and Bulgaria, most of FYROM indeed was to be given to Bulgaria, but Serbia was to take Albania. Once Austria-Hungary expressed their displeasure about Serbia getting to the coast, Bulgarian emperor proclaimed that he won't stand by Serbia if they keep on insisting on getting Albania and Adriatic coast. Bulgaria was to protect Serbia from an attack from Austria-Hungary, but in the end, they decided not to.
After Albania got taken away from Serbia and Montenegro, Serbs insisted on getting some kind of repartition in Macedonia, but Bulgars were against it. They wanted to get everything that was in the agreement FOR them, but didn't want to help Serbia in any way, even if they were obliged to. That led to the rift in their relations.
So, seeing that Bulgarian government was looking only for its own goals and ambitions, without ever actually taking in the account the wishes of their allies, wanting to get everything but to give nothing, Hellens and Serbs made a defensive pact, which stated that each country was to join in an event of a Bulgarian attack.

Of course there was more to it than that, like diminishing Serbia's help in the war by Bulgarian's government, even tho it was Serbia who with its modern and powerful artillery help them in a few sieges on Bulgarians demand.
Bulgaria wanted San Stefano Bulgaria, and that wasn't possible if they wanted to keep Balkan League intact.
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Old November 25th, 2012, 12:57 AM   #79

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Originally Posted by Glowin View Post
Even tho (as far as I have read) Serbia did violate terms of alliance agreement with Bulgaria, it was due to Bulgaria's stance that it won't help Serbia in its desire for territory that became Albania after the war. In the prewar agreement between Serbia and Bulgaria, most of FYROM indeed was to be given to Bulgaria, but Serbia was to take Albania. Once Austria-Hungary expressed their displeasure about Serbia getting to the coast, Bulgarian emperor proclaimed that he won't stand by Serbia if they keep on insisting on getting Albania and Adriatic coast. Bulgaria was to protect Serbia from an attack from Austria-Hungary, but in the end, they decided not to.
After Albania got taken away from Serbia and Montenegro, Serbs insisted on getting some kind of repartition in Macedonia, but Bulgars were against it. They wanted to get everything that was in the agreement FOR them, but didn't want to help Serbia in any way, even if they were obliged to. That led to the rift in their relations.
So, seeing that Bulgarian government was looking only for its own goals and ambitions, without ever actually taking in the account the wishes of their allies, wanting to get everything but to give nothing, Hellens and Serbs made a defensive pact, which stated that each country was to join in an event of a Bulgarian attack.

Of course there was more to it than that, like diminishing Serbia's help in the war by Bulgarian's government, even tho it was Serbia who with its modern and powerful artillery help them in a few sieges on Bulgarians demand.
Bulgaria wanted San Stefano Bulgaria, and that wasn't possible if they wanted to keep Balkan League intact.
If we observe the treaties made between the allies of the Balkan League, you would see that they are made too fast, they are not prepared good enough. For example the treaty between Greece and Bulgaria was the worse, the one with Serbia however, concerning Macedonia was not that bad actually. The two countries agreed that there will be neutral territories, which will be given to either Bulgaria or Serbia, with the decision of the Russian tzar Nicholas.

Concerning the artillary, Bulgaria was a small country compared to the Ottoman empire, with a rather new army and new high command, the only war in which Bulgaria army was involved is the one with Serbia from 1885, but until the First Balkan war, Bulgarian army had no military experiance, except maybe the battalions of macedonian irregulars "chetnici", though its one thing to fight an open war against a regular ottoman army, and another to fight in the forrest against ottoman police/irregulars.
However, Bulgaria was bound to fight on the most important front at that war, and this was eastern Thrace, you understand that the bulk of the Ottoman force was naturally there, Adrianople (modern name Edirne) and Istanbul were the two major Ottoman european cities, at that time, maybe even for the Ottoman empire as a whole.
It was unthinkable for many to believe that Bulgarian army will reach 40 kilometers away from Istanbul by the end of the war. It is only naturally that Bulgaria would rely to its allies in this front too, Serbian aid, and of course the greeks would use there modern fleet to block Dardanelles, and Galipoli which they actually did well.

Here is the movement of the armies, and look where the main Ottoman forces are. Of course they would be near there capital and main territories. Another interesting thing is that Macedonia (the main focus of bulgarian foreign policy after Berlin treaty), was not on the objective of the Bulgarian army with the exception of few cities in the eastern part of Vardar.
Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by sturm; November 25th, 2012 at 01:05 AM.
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Old November 25th, 2012, 02:59 AM   #80
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100 years ago..........
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